skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Apr 17, 2017 23:04:58 GMT
So I put this in the other thread but it probably belongs here. Does anyone see the sorcerer as a good counter to PoM jacks under choir? I suppose the shooting units he goes with probably can't bring down a PoM jack but at least its an option.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Apr 17, 2017 22:58:36 GMT
Does anyone see the sorcerer as a possible solution to PoM jacks?
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Apr 11, 2017 14:46:15 GMT
Personally I would switch out the Storm Troll for a Bouncer for the animus and shield guard. I think it could have some play. You can threaten from a long ways away with that King(or any of the beasts really) and it doesn't necessarily need rage. I could see this list getting some work done. I've found our lights are pretty decent thought underutilized. I really like the swamp troll for drag shenanigans and the animus. Haven't played the night troll but with the proper buffs it could do work as you said and in the right situation the animus could really wreck someones day.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Apr 11, 2017 14:34:14 GMT
I really appreciate you doing this article, thank you! It gives me a lot to think about. Honestly I've never built list pairings with my opponents in mind. I usually take two casters that I'm currently working with or that I feel especially strong with and use lists I'm comfortable with. But that's mostly because its proven more effective for me to do so than try to create lists that follow the criteria above. I found that in local tournaments it works out just fine. I haven't really run into one of those "I just can't win against that list" scenarios. I think that is one of the benefits of playing trolls. Just the way I normally construct my lists, I can handle a variety of playstyles. Our support models let us deal with a lot of situations that other armies have to tech for. In larger national tournaments, I have found I usually lose due to stupid mistakes(being nervous) and less to straight up bad matchups. Although going back to knowing what your opponents list do, I tend to see much different lists at these tournaments than our locals so I don't feel as comfortable going into them and overthink things. Question Trollock - Do you feel it is better to ask questions or answer them? From your post it seems that you would prefer to present a problem to your opponent and force them into a decision based on it. I tend to lean towards answering questions. Oh you shut my army down for a turn, well I can just walk forward with Doomie3 and an unkillable MK that will hold the zone that turn(but then again maybe I am presenting a problem as well there lol). Oh you have enliven or admonition, I have tons of ranged/magical accurate knockdown.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Apr 10, 2017 18:30:23 GMT
I'm still quite new, and not terribly familiar with slam. The way I understand it the model would be slammed out of my melee range. Is that correct? Unless there is another model of equal size behind it. Or you could hope you only move it an inch!
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Mar 28, 2017 21:37:02 GMT
Yes it is.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Mar 28, 2017 18:36:48 GMT
I ran a swamp troll in a list the other day where he really didn't "fit" in the list and still got plenty of use out of him. I threatened his caster and shield guard the entire game, made good use of his animus on both him and the caster, and he made a fine road block! He's a great fury generator or transfer target. He's not trivial to remove, especially under the stone(they bumped his armor up). Maybe he doesn't do anything extremely well but I feel like I could drop him in pretty much any list and he will make up his 8 points.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Mar 28, 2017 18:28:40 GMT
I really like the idea of pBorka in BoH. Reminds me a lot of Family Reunion(which I miss terribly, still can't use my 3rd unit of champions). Warders are a great unit to use as both a shield for delivering the champions or to help keep your bg from being picked apart on approach. Long Riders biggest problem to me is their speed so the feat helps with that. pBorka doesn't care about the runebearer being left out so that's another plus and he is pretty awesome when you give him a 2 inch deployment advantage.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Mar 27, 2017 19:08:51 GMT
I agree that Calandra and Grim2 probably run highwaymen the best.
I don't necessarily think Jarl has to "crack armor" to win. He gives the most mobility out of any Trolls caster to non-battlegroup models so as long as you can kill the caster he has game because you should be able to out maneuver the enemy for the assassination. Not having the armor cracking option though can backfire is their caster can stack.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Mar 23, 2017 20:19:22 GMT
List from last night: Horgle - Runebearer, Swamp, Pyre, Bouncer, MK, 2xFire Eaters, Min Stone, War Wagon
against: Darius - squire, Storm Wall, Centurion, Gallant, Strangeways, Junior, Charger
Very interesting game because neither of us had any threat extenders(outside of a run and jackhammer) so a major positioning battle. I was able to take Gallant off the board with a unit of Fire Eaters and a Pyre on feat turn as well as the SW(with AS) with my King and War Wagon. I had some trouble with Darius himself because of terrible roles from my FEs and frankly bad positioning on my part(good positioning on my opponents) so the game went longer than I wanted but it was still really fun.
It feels very strange to go so minimal on the support for trolls and not having any guaranteed whelps hurt me when the MK frenzied into the WW for 12 damage(no charge) but it was fun. Don't think I would want to play it into a lot of different armies but this one was a good matchup. Bringing the swamp troll to pull the shield guarding sentinel off of Darius to shoot him with the WW was tons of fun. Can't wait to see what they do to the WW because I already enjoy playing it so any improvements will be gravy.
edit: wanted to note I totally forgot to ignore blast damage when setting the FEs on fire last night when I had Solid Ground up. Will have to remember that in the future.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Mar 20, 2017 18:39:36 GMT
Personally, if I knew that's who I was going up againsts with Borka2, I would counter with our cheap lights. Use bouncers to absorb the attacks and swamps to suck them in and for the animus. Rok makes our light pretty trivally remove shredders and if you want kill enough on the way in and use the bouncers to hold them at bay I think you have a good chance. But then I like playing all our lights lol
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Mar 20, 2017 17:30:46 GMT
I had some pretty decent success with Madrak. My one problem seeming to be finding targets for his spear. Seems like everything he could reach was always engaged and I didn't usually have a fury to spend on farstrike. Spell Piercer is amazing. I have used it far more than any other spell on his card. Not needing a stone is great. I find getting to keep him full of fury puts him in a good spot to project and be relatively safe. I always want a bouncer/earthborn so he can't be knocked down on his non-feat turns. His feat is decent but not spectacular.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Mar 20, 2017 17:26:30 GMT
I don't know why a sweep wouldn't work for the feat. I was under the impression tramples did.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Mar 17, 2017 20:01:46 GMT
Great units I won't explain: Fire Eaters Warders Krielstone
So close to being great: Long Riders - Very hardy and have great abilities but they are just too damn slow for Cavalry. Champions - 5 wounds hurts with the armor loss. I really miss being able to move through each other. We also really miss the ability to buff their damage outside of the stone but I have had success with them in BoB if I can deliver them(big if most of the time). Fennblades - So fast and hit decently hard. Their problem is their defensive stats. Too easy to pick off the board with cheap volume shooting. If you can buff their defense and make it non-trivial to hit them they can do work. They also miss the old madrak2 feat.
Decent: Sluggers - Kind of easy to kill and non-guaranteed output. Runeshapers - To me kind of expensive for what they do. They do have some nice utility and are great if you can deliver them for knockdowns. Kriel Warriors - If you can provide any additional buffs to keep them alive they can do their job of gumming up the opposing player. I miss the damage buffs on the Cabers but wasn't as disappointed as I thought the games I've put them on the table. No free strikes sucks. They are cheap. Highwaymen - If you get them into good situations they can be great but my experience is they don't do enough to justify a roster spot. Scattergunners - I love these guys but until infantrymachine comes back they will only be decent. Fortune is amazing on them but if there is nothing but heavies they just can't do the damage.
I just don't get: Burrowers - my god they got nerfed into the ground. They were such a cool little unique unit and now I'm like "wtf do I do with these..." Just seem like they are a waste of points no matter what I do with them. Scouts - I want them to be good so bad and they just aren't. They die too easy and kill each other better than the other player. Maybe in a 10 man unit they would be better.
Not listed because of no experience: Bushwackers
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Mar 17, 2017 19:02:28 GMT
I've run 3 pyres in a few games with Horgle2. Being able to charge models on fire for free allows them to use their animus and hit relatively hard. Add in the feat and you can take out a heavy with some luck. There gun is mediocre but a decent threat and they still make good damage sinks.
Swamp trolls are awesome but I do find a hard time fitting them in. Dual attack is great and drag can be a game changer. Their animus is more useful now that concealment isn't ignored by everything. I really like them with Gunny for getting two drags a turn. Snipe is nice on them but not mandatory.
Slag - These guys are obvious, if you can setup the right matchups they are great. Remember they work against circle wold armies too.
Night - I have not run these guys yet but agree that running them in a battlegroup heavy army as harriers/meat shields seems decent. They are cheap and if you can use there tricks effective. Grim2 and Grissel1 seems to be obvious choices for them. Gotta remember they are our only model with inherent stealth too.
Winter - Gunny makes them useful as guided fire is amazing with crit sprays. Their animus is situationally useful if you can make them hard to kill(ie Doomie3 or Ragnor). I think boostable sprays in general are always good to have on hand.
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