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Post by battozai on Mar 16, 2017 18:17:11 GMT
I've seen a lot of talk around about how trolls currently need new/better infantry.
so do we need kriel warriors or champions buffed or do we just need a new unit altogether?
Also has anyone been having any success with infantry lists outside of madrak 2?
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Post by Trollock on Mar 16, 2017 18:39:23 GMT
Right now, the infantry feels pretty weak. It is not good at killing enemy heavies, and it dies to lots of things. Champions can kill a heavy, but so can a Mauler, and that only costs 15 points.
Obviously it would be best if our current infantry became a bit better, so we didnt own "useless" models, but right now we can not really do anything about it. Also, we have the PoD theme force that turned out to be very strong, and that is further incentive to not play infantry.
Infantry is not unplayable though, and many lists have stopped teching for them. You can still play infantry and do OK. It is just a bit easier with Heavies...
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513 
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Post by joedj on Mar 16, 2017 18:43:45 GMT
KW caber needs CHANGE. KWs CA might be taken if returned to Steady. Mine are currently shelved.
Gatorman Posse got 'upgraded' to 8 wounds in a newly released Theme. Champions might require the same, since they (more than one model) must survive to be able to generate 2 rounds of damage dealing due to their small footprint (b2b requirement/no 2" melee).
Yes, TBs could use a new unit, a 10-man Weaponmaster unit. With a significant dearth of non-warlock-dependent STR/damage buffs for units, SSE/SSC?, there is no longer any significant TB-faction-wide impediment to that type of unit. #designspace is present and waiting... (reference Retribution models in-coming)
That said, I've been loving my Sluggers. They were really bad in MK2, and I fielded them in casual games. Now they are better, and I enjoy fielding them, often as my one unit to give the opposing army someone to eliminate, as my heavies pound their heavies into pulp. |
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Post by randommovement on Mar 16, 2017 18:48:38 GMT
I think it also goes without saying that trolls are best played in theme and right now we only have two themes at our disposal. One of them has zeero infantry so that is not helping. Im looking forward to a 3rd or 4th theme to see how they really play out. I also feel like they should lower the needed points for our solo in BoH to make it more reasonable to stretch for a solo(unless they buff our models, but a theme buff seems like the path they are going liken to the gators)
Kriel warriors are great and i use them in alot of lists, they force bad alphas. Ive been less in love with champs and more in love with warders for what ever that is worth.
Id say warlocks to look at madraks, grissels, borka, and jarl.
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Post by zorrobard47 on Mar 17, 2017 2:12:41 GMT
Several Hordes factions lack small based armor cracking Infantry and Trollbloods are no exception. These factions either need more weapon master infantry (or equivilent) or more infantry based damage buffs. In MK 2 Trollbloods could get buffed by their warbeasts.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Mar 17, 2017 9:33:04 GMT
I'm playing exclusively in PoD theme at the moment.
The main units I miss are Fire Eaters and Bushwackers:
I'm expecting to play Fire Eaters when the Northkin theme comes out
I'm expecting to play bushwackers when the Cygnar Gunline theme comes out.
Most of the other infantry is very sad. Fennblades die in droves. It's a sad truth, but 12/14 stats are much worse than 14/11.
Champions don't hit hard enough, Warders are situationally. Kriel warriors don't kill anything, but are good at getting in the way.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Mar 17, 2017 20:01:46 GMT
Great units I won't explain:
Fire Eaters
Warders
Krielstone
So close to being great:
Long Riders - Very hardy and have great abilities but they are just too damn slow for Cavalry.
Champions - 5 wounds hurts with the armor loss. I really miss being able to move through each other. We also really miss the ability to buff their damage outside of the stone but I have had success with them in BoB if I can deliver them(big if most of the time).
Fennblades - So fast and hit decently hard. Their problem is their defensive stats. Too easy to pick off the board with cheap volume shooting. If you can buff their defense and make it non-trivial to hit them they can do work. They also miss the old madrak2 feat.
Decent:
Sluggers - Kind of easy to kill and non-guaranteed output.
Runeshapers - To me kind of expensive for what they do. They do have some nice utility and are great if you can deliver them for knockdowns.
Kriel Warriors - If you can provide any additional buffs to keep them alive they can do their job of gumming up the opposing player. I miss the damage buffs on the Cabers but wasn't as disappointed as I thought the games I've put them on the table. No free strikes sucks. They are cheap.
Highwaymen - If you get them into good situations they can be great but my experience is they don't do enough to justify a roster spot.
Scattergunners - I love these guys but until infantrymachine comes back they will only be decent. Fortune is amazing on them but if there is nothing but heavies they just can't do the damage.
I just don't get:
Burrowers - my god they got nerfed into the ground. They were such a cool little unique unit and now I'm like "wtf do I do with these..." Just seem like they are a waste of points no matter what I do with them.
Scouts - I want them to be good so bad and they just aren't. They die too easy and kill each other better than the other player. Maybe in a 10 man unit they would be better.
Not listed because of no experience:
Bushwackers
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Post by gunndrakcapthide on Mar 17, 2017 20:24:37 GMT
There's been discussion that infantry across most factions should get a point reduction, since many warjacks got a price cut. To improve our infantry, here's what I've seen before, plus my own ideas:
Warders: back to 8 boxes (they're trolls, they're supposed to be hardy!). Add a 3 point UA that grants Gang
Champions: Increase armor, back to 8 boxes (having 8 boxes while other heavy infantry in other factions makes sense because of our faction identity/fluff. Trolls are tough, while under other heavy armor is a squishy human).
Fennblades: Increase defense.
Kriel Warriors: Give back Prayers. Make the UA more useful.
Burrowers: Undo the nerf.
Highwaymen: Increase range to be consistent with other pistoleer units.
Long Riders: Increase speed by one inch, or increase weapon range by 1 inch. Make mount attacks more powerful.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Mar 17, 2017 21:15:47 GMT
Regarding Burrowers: For casual play, they still get the job done for me. If I go second, Burrowed they start at 16" and are present to pop up on opposing target(s) on turn 3 (22") or turn 4 (25"). 22-25" plus their "completely within 4inches" pop-up circle get them to the spot I want, usually prepped for blasting a warlock/warcaster attempting to dominate a zone.
With Grim2/Grissel2/Calandra1 they continue to be killers, since 6 POW 14s means they, at least, force the opposing warcaster to use up his Focus. Cheap for 8 pts. Akin to not being allowed to ambush until turn 3 or 4(?). The small CMD bubble and the point cost keeps me from using the full unit.
Their MK2 version was remarkably brutal.
The MK3 version requires patience if using for drop & pop. Newer players don't see their threat.
Though FA1 kills me still  |
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