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Post by ninjastars on Jul 3, 2017 16:46:15 GMT
I'm asking as a troll player with very little legion in my local meta. I don't want to get caught off guard the first time I run into it.
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Post by ninjastars on Jul 3, 2017 16:38:22 GMT
The best comparison to doomie3 seems to be ragnar, since they have similar feats. They each have advantages and disadvantages. Dommies better into control, whereas Ragnar handles jack spam and shooting a little better. ultimately it feels like doomies problem is those missing warbeast points. whenever i make ragnar lists, i can use those extra points to fit in another heavy, which seems like a big deal to me. I disagree the casters are anything alike to be honest. They have relatively similar feats, but even then one works on battlegroup and has a hit buff the other works on everything. Ragnor is interesting and fine, but he doesn't play well into anything that is big right now. He isn't good into Haley2 or Fyanna2. He doesn't bring the control himself and he doesn't stop control. The main reason to take him would be against something like Baldur2 which Ragnor is clearly stronger into. I might be wrong though. like I said, i played a lot of Ragnor after MK3 came out, but I think we have more interesting options since the themes came out. I think on a practical level their feats are similar, since its all POD all the time now, your army is going to be mostly battlegroup anyway, and since neither caster has threat extension and POD has no screening, most of the time you're going to be feating defensively, which means Doomie3's hit buff won't see a lot of play. I am interested in your point about their relative matchup strength. my local meta is a lot of Khador jack spam and huge base lists, which I think ragnor is better into. however, i could see there being a problem when i go to NoVa con at the end of the summer and smack into a lot of haley and fyanna and be unprepared for it. Also I haven't given doomie a spin in mk3 yet and I've been playing a lot of ragnar. so something to think about! I'm interested In why you go with the MK in your list. I see the advantage with being immune to grievous wounds, but implacability is wasted on him and you get more admonition targets in a four heavy list.
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Post by ninjastars on Jul 3, 2017 15:57:16 GMT
The best comparison to doomie3 seems to be ragnar, since they have similar feats. They each have advantages and disadvantages. Dommies better into control, whereas Ragnar handles jack spam and shooting a little better. ultimately it feels like doomies problem is those missing warbeast points. whenever i make ragnar lists, i can use those extra points to fit in another heavy, which seems like a big deal to me.
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Post by ninjastars on Jul 3, 2017 3:59:29 GMT
Yeah that's pretty much how I used it the other day. I ran it with horgle and put IR on it and just screened my army with it. It was nuts. Being able to just run over jamming infantry makes it a nightmare on wheels, and I had two pow 19 heavies fail to kill it in both my games. I think this is the main way to use it.
The way I'm looking at it is the war wagon is it basically fills the same role as fenns in your army, but it's just better at it.
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Post by ninjastars on Jul 1, 2017 4:05:43 GMT
I Played this list a couple times the other day:
Horgle runebearer Bomber Mulg Dozer War Wagon Whelps Fire eaters x 2 min stone + elder
And it worked really well. I won both games easily
before that, I tried a similar tier list as trollock, just with the mk:
Horgle Runebearer MK Mauler Blitzer axer Janissa Min stone+ elder 2x runeshapers
Both lists follow the same basic plan, which is to put inviolable resolve on your huge base and face tank your opponent. Your opponent can't jam a huge base with infantry because of horgle's chain attack. It takes three heavies to remove the huge base under most circumstances, and they can still fail with some bad dice. Regardless of whether your huge base dies, you spend the next turn feating and killing the three heavies they committed to removing it. under horlge's feat it usually takes me a heavy and a light and some infantry to kill the three heavies (boosted runeshapers are no joke.) I think this plan works slightly better with the war wagon, because its faster and is a lower point commitment, and you also get fire eaters, but on the other hand horgle really does love the dhunia tier benefits, so the mk list is fun as well.
I imagine horgle will really love the new tier options that are coming out in the fall, because those tiers will have fire eaters and the war wagon (hopefully the war wagon is in the northkin theme).
I should say after playing both him and ragnor a fair amount i think ragnor is just better, or at leat easier to use. ragnors feat is much easier to take advantage of, because you only need to get your own model's in his control area, and the option to feat defensively gives him more versatility than horgle. Horgle has better anti infantry tech and is probably more fun to play, so its not a huge disadvantage, just something to keep in mind.
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Post by ninjastars on Apr 19, 2017 22:39:06 GMT
I really don't see the point of putting Fenns (or kriels) in a BOH list if you own enough long riders, warders, and champs to use them instead. the units don't do exactly the same thing, but you can get the other units to fill the place of fenns well enough that i think it always makes sense just to go for maximizing the point discounts.
I also agree with trollock that its really stupid fenns and kriels don't count towards the point discount. those units need all the help they can get to be worth taking. That being said I think the theme is actually really good overall. I've gotten enough out of long riders and champs for the theme to be competitive.
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Post by ninjastars on Apr 18, 2017 18:53:00 GMT
Well I only did get one game in with her, so its a little early to say. It is one of the more disappointing feats, but I think on the whole she has enough other stuff going on to make up for it.
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Post by ninjastars on Apr 18, 2017 15:10:13 GMT
These lists offer a good example why i'd probably play doomie2 out of tier if i brought him to the table. Having Rok chew through all those winterguard is just too delicious and opportunity to pass up.
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Post by ninjastars on Apr 17, 2017 20:06:28 GMT
You know, I've seen you dropping a lot of posts getting ready for your first tournament, and I applaud your dedication to tournament prep. I also do a lot of the same kind of matchup analysis before I go into a tournament. I have found though, that list prep and preparing for your opponents lists only gets you so far. The biggest factor for winning and losing for me is usually just basic play issues, especially when I'm first starting out. I've played the lists you're bring and they look fine. It think its really more about keeping track of a few simple things:
- try and be aware of threat ranges. pre measure everything. pre-measure your opponents models and leave little markers at their limits, so you don't wander into their threat ranges unless you want to, most of the less experienced tournament players lose to me because they don't do that. - Be aware of terrain blocking los and movement is usually one of the big factors in whether i win or lose. - you don't have to rush everything forward. this is the one I tend to have the most trouble with. I like to get up there and apply ax to face as quickly as possible. but often times I just end up over committing. put a few things out front and leave a few farther back to clear off jammers. having layers of models lets you set up piece trades more effectively.
I'm sorry if these things are obvious, but I have found that when I play newer players these are the things they have the biggest problem with.
Every once in a while there is some list matchup where I just don't know how to deal with what my opponent is bringing to the table (I'm still traumatized by my first gorten expereince.), but usually those players are really good anyway, so even if they brought something i could deal with, they'd probably just outplay me. The point being don't sweat the list matchups too much ,and just stick to getting your play basics down, I think that will serve you better in the end.
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Post by ninjastars on Apr 17, 2017 0:45:56 GMT
Oops missed that, is the first time I played with her. Wouldn't have been a huge deal, I could have still made it to the zone, I just would have had to kill hit one of my own long riders with the spray I did only spray once though, the two eliminator were in a line, so it hit them both.
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Post by ninjastars on Apr 16, 2017 19:23:19 GMT
I’ve been playing skorne since the errata, but I just can't quit trolls for long, so I decided to bust them out for a tournament this weekend. Life events have prevented me from playing for about a month, and both of these lists were totally new to me, so I was going in seeing this as just some fun games and a chance to get back in the troll groove So of course I win the tournament, my first tournament win ever
Here’s my battle reports/humblebragging
My lists
Grissel1 Mauler Earthborn 2x units long riders Champs with skaldi Stone with elder Fell caller Chronicler
Grissel2 Runebearer MK Bomber 3x runeshapers Janissa Whelps
Game 1 Grissel2 vs Kromac1 2 stalkers, 2 shrimp, mist riders, and the battle engine
Scenario didn’t matter
How to put this politely...my opponent had some problems with list design and selection, threat range assessment, and model placement, so I kind of rolled him. first turn I go first and run, he does the same, placing his stalkers on my right flank, mist riders in front of me, and kromac and the battle engine farther back in the center. He’s put his mist riders in a line base to base, so grissel and the bomber walk up and blow them off the table, the mk puts a spray into a stalker, dinging him up. I screen the king with runeshapers on the right. His turn he uses one stalker to wipe out my screening runeshapers, critically, he sprints to a location where the mk can get to him. He puts the other stalker into the king, taking off half his health. Next turn I feat and the bomber and grissel gun down the battle engine, the mk charges in such a way that he bulldozes the stalker engaging him out of the way and ends up engaging both stalkers, killing them both. At that point, he has kromac kill my bomber for army points and then concedes
Game2 Grissel2 vs Caine3, galleon, two of those shield gun lights, croes, aiyana,
Scenario was Extraction
This guy won the last tournament I played at so I was nervous going in. Turn 1 I go first and we both run up. He has caine and co in a forest on my left, facing off vs 2 units of runeshapers. our gargosaals are in the center, grissel to the left of the mk, and croe is on the right facing off with one unit of runeshapers. Turn 2 I don’t have much in range, so I move the left units of runeshapers up, running 1 unit behind a wall and the other walks and digs. Everyone else lobs aoe’s at croes but don’t hit much. And I cast deflection His turn caine pops out of the woods and kills 2 runeshapers, then repositions back in the woods, croes move up and I lose 1 runeshaper My turn i move the bomber and grissel forward and kill both his shield jacks, I realize he has blocked in his galleon with his objective, so that I can move in the mk into charge range of the galleon for next turn without getting charged myself.
His turn he feats and blows the mk off the table.
With the mk gone, i have to play for scenario. Grissel moves to the right through the space where the mk was standing and wipes out the croes with sprays. I run a whelp in to control the right flag. On the left, I have one unit of runeshapers control the flag and dig in. i go to 2
His turn, caine puts calamity on the bomber and the black 13th tries to kill the runeshapers on the left flag, but they can’t hit def 18 this time. He settles for conteststing the left flag with one of the black 13th. the galleon guns the bomber off the table, and Aiyana and holt run up, kill the whelp on the right flag, and contest it. My turn I have grissel kill aiyana and holt, I cast deflection and put grissel on a hill. the runshapers on the left tremble and rockhammer the contesting black13th. HIs turn he no longer has anything on the left to contest the right flag, so he tries to kill grissel. I have nothing left to transfrer to but I’m on a hill with deflection up, so he can’t land enough shots, and I go to 5 FTW.
Grissel1 vs irusk2, riflemen, pikemen, 2 mortars, 2 units of eliminators, 2 kodiaks and a juggernaut.
Scenario was entrenched
Turn 1 I put hoof it and mist on a unit of long riders and they run to a hill just out of his charge range center of the board, other long riders in my zone on the right, champs, horthol and earthborn head towards his zone on the left, and my mauler’s farther back in the center. His turn he runs one unit of eliminators and 4 pikemen to jam my long riders, his morters kill my fell caller
My turn I use the farther back unit of long riders and horthol to clear off the jammers, and my forward unit charges into his battlegroup, crippling the juggernaut and jamming up the rest. His turn he feats, the riflemen and some pikemen kill three of the long riders in the farther back unit and some of the long riders that charged. The juggernaut finishes off the long riders that charged it, one kodiak charges into his zone and kills horthol, and the other tramples forward to threaten grissel. The other unit of elimiators kill one of the long riseds and end up in his zone My turn i feat, put boundless charge on the mauler and boost 2 sprays into the eliminators, killing them (phew!). grissel gets hoof it and the champs get extra attack. The earthborn charges the kodiak in the zone but bounces (Last time i bring a damn earthborn), but the champs manage to finish it off, along with his objective. With boundless charge, the mauler is able to reach the other kodiak and kill it. The few surviving long riders kill and engage pikemen. Grissel uses her hoof it move to advance into his zone, and I dominate to go to 3. His turn everything is on the wrong side of the board, so he just doesn’t have enough to contest or threaten his own zone. He spends the turn clearing my zone of the 2 remaining long riders and killing my objective, going to 2. He runs 1 pikemen into his zone to contest, and I kill him for the win.
Thoughts- the grissel 2 list felt really good. Dug in runeshapers under deflection are at that point where even elite shooting units can’t hit them, and grissel’s gun is just so good, and it makes her a lot more dynamic than the average warlock. I didn’t even get to leverage her feat in my games, so there’s probably even more there that i need to test out
Grissel1 i’m less sure of, or I should say grissel with the long riders. They felt squshier and more pillow fisted than I expected. I assumed they would be able to weather shooting from riflemen and kill jacks effectively, but that didn’t work out in my game. Still, the list did function very well as a scenario threat. His turn 2 he did kill the most of the long riders, but it took enough activations that he was prevented from moving most of his army forward, allowing me to leverage a scenario win. Its not my usual play style, and its not how you normally use long riders, but with enough practice it might be legit. I’m still trying to decide if I could run that list better with another warlock, but there is some cache to the grissel tag team.
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Post by ninjastars on Mar 26, 2017 14:15:57 GMT
As a minion player, maybe you'd appreciate a little minion tech.
You could drop the bouncer and the bellows crew for lynus& edrea and alten. Lynus gives precision strike to a highwayman, and that highwayman leads two big cra's into a heavy, crippling a cortex or spirit, then alten stops them from healing. It is a big points investment, but you'll feel like a champ when you pull it off.
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Post by ninjastars on Mar 24, 2017 19:02:16 GMT
Here's the thing about troll infantry/cav. It tends to be not very good, but that's mostly because its overcosted. Longriders might not be worth 20 points, but they're probably worth 18. In theme you're getting them at 15-16 points. Same for champs and warders. So the theme takes our overcosted infatry and makes them reasonably priced. PoD does the same for our slightly more reasonably costed beasts, which is why its fun to bring one of each theme in a list pair.
I've mostly focused on double long rider+ champ lists, because I have the models and want to use them. I've played them with madrak2 and both grissels. Madrak2 was probably the best with them, even post nerf, but grissel1 was a lot of fun and required more finesse than the average troll list, which was welcome. I didn't get in a lot of practice with grissel2 but liked my initial games with her.
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Post by ninjastars on Mar 12, 2017 0:52:49 GMT
I think morgoul1 is a good idea. Xerxis is kind of a slow, reactive caster, so morgoul would be a good pairing by being fast and dynamic. He would do well into lists with tempo feats and lists that deny orders.
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Post by ninjastars on Mar 9, 2017 21:04:30 GMT
im playing rasheth right now, but I'm considering switching to zaadesh. Looking at his card, I can't really get a sense of the best way to get into engagement. He doesn't have a speed buff, so I'm assuming turn 2 with him centers around threat mitigation. Looking at him, it seems like the options are to cloud wall and trust sac pawn to keep him alive, or put inviolable resolve on a high arm unit and let them soak your opponents alpha. I guess if you bring despoiler you can also do both.
Which of these plans do you think would work better? Also, do you feat on turn 2 to add the threat of defensive strikes, or do you save it until you can charge some stuff?
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