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Post by elladan52 on Mar 1, 2018 16:31:02 GMT
thank you Nothing prevents you from doing something similar around you. I did not play a SR scenario in 2 years, outside a few tournaments of course, and boy, was it fun with homemade or web inspired scenariis ^^ What's scenarii? Edit: Just looked it up, you learn something new every day. Though now "scenariis" is sending me into fits.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 1, 2018 17:32:50 GMT
Very much what you said. Again, my ideal example of what a theme should be: Black Industries. Model Limitations? Check. almost no infantry allowed Hard benefit? Check. Carapace Soft benefit? Check. +2" deployment Where Legion falls down so hard is that the benefits are not great, and the limitations are twice as restrictive as other factions' (limiting both battlegroup and infantry) -und_ed carapace is too strong as a theme benefit. it was only a matter of time before slayer spam became a thing. unyielding is more reasonable, and a benefit we have, which is great, we just don't have enough nephilim to play, and some of the lights are over-costed still. I do agree that on the whole our themes have weaker benefits than a lot of other themes, especially the stronger ones. having switched over to minions and started playing blindwater theme and WWFF, those are what theme benefits should be. WHY CAN"T WE HAVE SHIELD GUARD AS A BENEFIT? Bad road to go down now that CiD is over. We saw the last CiD, they don't have any interest in changing their "vision" for Legion, especially the themes. So if you don't like our current themes, you will just work yourself into fits with this thought path. I know I have. Figure out how to make them fun, make your homebrew rules, or move onto another faction/game.
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Post by chillychinaman on Mar 1, 2018 17:38:42 GMT
Bad road to go down now that CiD is over. We saw the last CiD, they don't have any interest in changing their "vision" for Legion, especially the themes. So if you don't like our current themes, you will just work yourself into fits with this thought path. I know I have. Figure out how to make them fun, make your homebrew rules, or move onto another faction/game. Or what I'm gonna assume is PP's 4th option, buy these new Nephilim that are so super cool and powerful when our next CID rolls around. Not that I would be opposed to new Nephilim options.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2018 18:33:54 GMT
as i clearly stated in the post gordo, i have started playing minions. i really don't even think my post was that bad. and just because they were not willing to make more changes during the last CID doesn't mean i will not continue to think of new possibilities that would be worthwile. like having more beast shield guard options than one over-costed nephilim. they were not willing to go down other faction change roads during the PT CID. but once the CID comes around for those other faction options, i will be ready with clear ideas and suggestions.
also, just a little bit of push back here, i understand warding against overly negative posts, but don't tell me how to enjoy the faction or the game. It took a lot of work from the community for them to fix skorne and trolls. I would like to avoid legion falling into that space. And I think that will take work from the player base to make sure PP hears us.
chilly exactly. i have far more hope for the CoTD CID, rather than what came out of PT. i fully expect it to be buy these new super cool and powerful nephilim, which I will. with a shut up and take my money attitude.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 1, 2018 19:08:41 GMT
as i clearly stated in the post gordo, i have started playing minions. i really don't even think my post was that bad. and just because they were not willing to make more changes during the last CID doesn't mean i will not continue to think of new possibilities that would be worthwile. like having more beast shield guard options than one over-costed nephilim. they were not willing to go down other faction change roads during the PT CID. but once the CID comes around for those other faction options, i will be ready with clear ideas and suggestions. also, just a little bit of push back here, i understand warding against overly negative posts, but don't tell me how to enjoy the faction or the game. It took a lot of work from the community for them to fix skorne and trolls. I would like to avoid legion falling into that space. And I think that will take work from the player base to make sure PP hears us. chilly exactly. i have far more hope for the CoTD CID, rather than what came out of PT. i fully expect it to be buy these new super cool and powerful nephilim, which I will. with a shut up and take my money attitude. Oh I'm sorry, none of this was supposed to come off as a "shut up" attitude. I actually like reading negative posts regarding Legion because it makes me feel "less alone" in my opinion. But I also know how bad focusing on it was for my enjoyment of the game. I was really just trying to give friendly advice :/ I'm sorry if it came off any other way. Reading the post again, I can see how it did come out that way though. My bad. Given how poorly the Legion CiD went in addressing our issues, I had to lower my expectations. I don't think we are scheduled for another CiD in a LONG time, unfortunately.
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Post by chillychinaman on Mar 1, 2018 20:17:38 GMT
Oh I'm sorry, none of this was supposed to come off as a "shut up" attitude. I actually like reading negative posts regarding Legion because it makes me feel "less alone" in my opinion. But I also know how bad focusing on it was for my enjoyment of the game. I was really just trying to give friendly advice :/ I'm sorry if it came off any other way. Reading the post again, I can see how it did come out that way though. My bad. Given how poorly the Legion CiD went in addressing our issues, I had to lower my expectations. I don't think we are scheduled for another CiD in a LONG time, unfortunately. The only ways they could make CotD worse is they removed Azrael and to a lesser extent Zuriel or started gutting Nyss. I have nothing against the model in it, but the theme is so laughably bad outside of a few builds and especially compared to other themes that I can only see it improving, however minor those changes may be. Also, the current CID time table will end mid summer with Pirates, which would allow them to announce the next set of CIDs during either L&L or GenCon. Finally, what issues did you think went unaddressed? Keep in mind, that PP is probably no longer balancing Legion as a whole much anymore. Ogrun before were hard to deliver for their points, and I feel between Chosen, BB buffs, and cheaper Warmongers, the theme is in a good place, which was the intent of the CID.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2018 21:22:02 GMT
no worries gordo, maybe i'm just a little overly sensitive since its still a bit of a sore spot for me. Context is hard on the internet. Sorry. Thanks for the apology and reply. Yeah next legion CID is probably a couple years out ish.
Chilly, I don't completely hate CoTD as is. Mostly it works with Thags 1 and fyanna, and with a couple other casters. But mostly thags 1. Which says something. I will try to break down what I could see so far:
Casters: So warlocks that fit with the theme that need work: Saeryn, Bethayne, Vayl 1(maybe she is seen as oracles, but she needs work. wouldn't take much). probably a new caster as well, so vayl probably doesn't make it in, but one can hope. One thing i see as a glaring issue with the theme and faction is that not many of our casters are super amazing at delivering infantry, and we have a massive lack of being able to give pathfinder to infantry. Only twins have it and only on the charge. So i would really like to see a caster that can give pathfinder to infantry, or can support swordsmen better in general. Quicken comes to mind, veil of mists, chosen ground, deceleration, weald secrets, maybe a version of boundless charge that is target model/unit. Threat extender is useful as well since we are without the seraph in that theme, and ravens contains most of our speediest stuff besides raptors. Alternatively, if you wanted a new more ranged focus caster, for archers and such, you could do calamity, blur, snipe, explosivo, weald secrets again, etc.
Beasts: So obviously generic heavies are needed. A budget beater, and then a premium heavy at minimum. 3 new would be ideal. Weapons and armor to push the theme, and differentiate from oracles. Premium can be melee or ranged, or mixed. Animi are super important, as we are lacking key tool animi found elsewhere in faction. Not that we have to get those back specifically, but they need to be highly useful, and one should at least provide a toolbox quality. Protector and bolt thrower need points reduction (8 and 10 respectively), or bolt thrower needs a way to be more fury efficient. Could potentially adjust a lesser here too (stinger probably) to flesh out the beast options. Or even a new lesser.
Units: Legionnaires obviously need adjustment. Points drop, and maybe rules work. Archers should go down to 12 points. Ready ammo range on UA should go to just in formation. Scather crew...well does anyone care at this point? Maybe just a new option instead. Spawning vessel should have unit leader/officer so it can score zones (look at minion pot). Lots of units already, so not sure what new stuff i would like to see. we do need more fury management. (ooh, maybe like a brood mother unit that does support stuff, but once per game can sacrifice itself to bring a new nephilim light into play. this is probably broken, but sounds cool). we do
Solos: Lots of good solos already, maybe another support model to shore up theme weaknesses or legionnaire solo? I have not thought about this a whole lot yet, but there is plenty of room to shore up the lack of toolbox in this theme. Some way of giving magical weapons in general would also be good for the theme, even if its not warlock based, so we are not required to take hex hunters. Maybe we just focus on whats up above.
That's my take so far.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 1, 2018 21:39:35 GMT
Oh I'm sorry, none of this was supposed to come off as a "shut up" attitude. I actually like reading negative posts regarding Legion because it makes me feel "less alone" in my opinion. But I also know how bad focusing on it was for my enjoyment of the game. I was really just trying to give friendly advice :/ I'm sorry if it came off any other way. Reading the post again, I can see how it did come out that way though. My bad. Given how poorly the Legion CiD went in addressing our issues, I had to lower my expectations. I don't think we are scheduled for another CiD in a LONG time, unfortunately. The only ways they could make CotD worse is they removed Azrael and to a lesser extent Zuriel or started gutting Nyss. I have nothing against the model in it, but the theme is so laughably bad outside of a few builds and especially compared to other themes that I can only see it improving, however minor those changes may be. Also, the current CID time table will end mid summer with Pirates, which would allow them to announce the next set of CIDs during either L&L or GenCon. Finally, what issues did you think went unaddressed? Keep in mind, that PP is probably no longer balancing Legion as a whole much anymore. Ogrun before were hard to deliver for their points, and I feel between Chosen, BB buffs, and cheaper Warmongers, the theme is in a good place, which was the intent of the CID. So maybe 6 months before we get more addressed. Not as long as I thought. My biggest issues with the Primal Terrors CID was that despite Legion's many issues, it was the smallest CiD to date, with minimal developer interaction. I regularly watched people who obviously don't play Legion go in and intentionally sabotage it. (Watching those same people take part in the Khador CiD suddenly not at all concerned about balance is what clinched it for me). It feels to me like they think there are few, if any, problems with Legion. I could list the many issues I have with Legion, again, but as I mentioned... I don't think it's constructive at this point to do so. Those gripes will simply go unanswered for at least 6 months, and probably not addressed at all given what I've seen. And who knows? Maybe they are right, the the Legion of Fyanna2 is just the way they want it, and I'm crazy to want something else. Maybe seeing how well the other CiDs turned out just got my hopes up too high. But it's very clear to me that what I want addressed isn't going to be. And based on the responses in this thread alone, I'm far from alone. But you are right in that Primal Terrors will work well. I expect to see some pretty strong Blightbringer + 40-60 points of infantry, mostly Chosen.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 1, 2018 21:45:36 GMT
no worries gordo, maybe i'm just a little overly sensitive since its still a bit of a sore spot for me. Context is hard on the internet. Sorry. Thanks for the apology and reply. Yeah next legion CID is probably a couple years out ish. All good. I've been told to "shut up, you had Mk2" for over 2 years now. It is really frustrating, so i get it. But, hey... I really like the new Minions stuff, so good on you! I moved onto Skorne myself (which ironically has only strengthened my urge to complain about Legion, now that I know what I'm missing, but eh... At least I'm getting some great games in)
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Post by chillychinaman on Mar 2, 2018 0:49:33 GMT
What factions will not have received a CID by the summer and Pirates? Off the top of my head, I think it's only Skorne and the had their remake. From there would it be safe to assume that PP will turn around again to the other factions? The question becomes if PP will expand on existing themes or create new ones.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 2, 2018 2:58:59 GMT
What factions will not have received a CID by the summer and Pirates? Off the top of my head, I think it's only Skorne and the had their remake. From there would it be safe to assume that PP will turn around again to the other factions? The question becomes if PP will expand on existing themes or create new ones. Clearly it will be time for another Cryx or Cygnar CiD.
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Post by elladan52 on Mar 2, 2018 13:04:33 GMT
What factions will not have received a CID by the summer and Pirates? Off the top of my head, I think it's only Skorne and the had their remake. From there would it be safe to assume that PP will turn around again to the other factions? The question becomes if PP will expand on existing themes or create new ones. Ret hasn't had one, they got releases just before CID (and it shows)
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Post by davycannonhound on Mar 5, 2018 7:17:54 GMT
Scather crew...well does anyone care at this point? Well, it would be cool if it could pump out rust or erosion.
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Post by chillychinaman on Mar 5, 2018 18:17:27 GMT
Scather crew...well does anyone care at this point? Well, it would be cool if it could pump out rust or erosion. A debuff shot type variant or CA would really help shore up the low PS of CotD so it wouldn't have to crutch so hard on pieces like Thags1/Fyanna and BFS.
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Post by jediguru on Mar 5, 2018 21:00:36 GMT
Maybe it's time to let this thread die, yeah? Many of the points of conversation on here are pretty general and off topic at this point.
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