dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Jun 27, 2017 15:17:31 GMT
While it is true that the cost-to-boxes ratio seems to favour two Heavies over one Colossal, remember that it is much harder to one-round a Colossal. In general, I find that if Colossals survive into the late game, they become exceeding difficult to deal with. I think Cygnar and Convergence brings their Colossals all the time (at least one list in a two-list pair has one). Circle, Skorne, Retribution, Cryx, Mercenaries, and Trollbloods bring theirs in certain lists (for Circle that's Woldwrath and never Storm Raptor). Khador, Protectorate, and Legion rarely bring theirs (at least locally) although I saw a lot of Blightbringers at the beginning of Mk3. So, all in all, I'd say that they are at least viable in the right list (which is true about most models, really). Some individual pieces may still need adjustments to become decently popular (say, Storm Raptor, Judicator, Sea King). I certainly feel the lack of a Gargantuan option when playing Minions. I'd probably agree with you on the difficulty in removal, if the judicator had the tenacity to hang on until the late game. I tend to play forward with my colossals which leads to them being removed too quickly. I have only played against it in mk3 a couple of times but in mk2 it used to scare the living daylights out of me. It hit hard enough to remove a Heavy if I put it too far forward and its rockets flew everywhere and murdered all my infantry (especially under Feora2 when it set everything on fire).
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 27, 2017 15:22:54 GMT
Yeah, Seige2 will be good with blades because he can get them a 12" on feat turn. Or he can move them up and dig in so they have cover from shooting. It's hardly absurd for a feat. We're just happy because a caster can actually extend our melee dude's melee range.
Anywho, I also like the Judicator. Pretty good ranged attacks and solid melee.
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Post by Cryptix on Jun 27, 2017 17:09:28 GMT
We're just happy because a caster can actually extend our melee dude's melee range. What is Jakes2?
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 27, 2017 17:11:46 GMT
We're just happy because a caster can actually extend our melee dude's melee range. What is Jakes2? +1" isn't much of a game changer. But, sure, she does extend their threat... a little.
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Post by Korianneder on Jun 27, 2017 18:10:58 GMT
+1" isn't much of a game changer. But, sure, she does extend their threat... a little. If only there was a caster who had crusaders call in Cygnar. Maybe she could have a feat that helps her warrior models survive for a turn. That sounds like exactly what Cygnar players are asking for.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 27, 2017 18:35:31 GMT
+1" isn't much of a game changer. But, sure, she does extend their threat... a little. If only there was a caster who had crusaders call in Cygnar. Maybe she could have a feat that helps her warrior models survive for a turn. That sounds like exactly what Cygnar players are asking for. I've actually thought about using Blaize for SD. It just seems to me that by the time the armor bonus from the feat actually keeps storm blades alive, you've already lost a full unit of them. Idk. I might try her out. Maybe if I screen with field mechanics, then they can die to trigger the feat... hmmm...
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Post by Korianneder on Jun 27, 2017 18:54:38 GMT
If only there was a caster who had crusaders call in Cygnar. Maybe she could have a feat that helps her warrior models survive for a turn. That sounds like exactly what Cygnar players are asking for. I've actually thought about using Blaize for SD. It just seems to me that by the time the armor bonus from the feat actually keeps storm blades alive, you've already lost a full unit of them. Idk. I might try her out. Maybe if I screen with field mechanics, then they can die to trigger the feat... hmmm... Feat stacks with arcane shield so if you lose two then your stormblades are up to arm 20. She also brings anti upkeep which Cygnar doesn't have much of.
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Post by Yak on Jun 27, 2017 19:32:25 GMT
Double woldwrath in Bones theme is one of the best Circle lists around at the moment. It answers a lot of questions, whilst asking "can you kill a big tank rock-monster who heals a huge amount every turn? What about two?".
But you need two gargantuans, which isn't in everyone's price range.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 27, 2017 21:10:52 GMT
+1" isn't much of a game changer. But, sure, she does extend their threat... a little. If only there was a caster who had crusaders call in Cygnar. Maybe she could have a feat that helps her warrior models survive for a turn. That sounds like exactly what Cygnar players are asking for. I considered it for a while, but the problem is that blaize doesn't get a fantastic feat and she doesn't bring any Ranged or melee defence outside of the feat.
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Post by streetpizza on Jun 27, 2017 21:16:23 GMT
If only there was a caster who had crusaders call in Cygnar. Maybe she could have a feat that helps her warrior models survive for a turn. That sounds like exactly what Cygnar players are asking for. I considered it for a while, but the problem is that blaize doesn't get a fantastic feat and she doesn't bring any Ranged or melee defence outside of the feat. If only she had a decent character jack with shield guard that could solve part of that problem ...
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 27, 2017 21:42:13 GMT
I considered it for a while, but the problem is that blaize doesn't get a fantastic feat and she doesn't bring any Ranged or melee defence outside of the feat. If only she had a decent character jack with shield guard that could solve part of that problem ... What part of the problem of "my army dies" is gallant solving?
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Post by Korianneder on Jun 27, 2017 21:52:53 GMT
If only there was a caster who had crusaders call in Cygnar. Maybe she could have a feat that helps her warrior models survive for a turn. That sounds like exactly what Cygnar players are asking for. I considered it for a while, but the problem is that blaize doesn't get a fantastic feat and she doesn't bring any Ranged or melee defence outside of the feat. Lots of casters in the game only have a feat to deliver their army. Blaize also gets access to arcane shield on a single unit. I think if Cygnar had a cheap disposable where it didn't hurt if 4-5 of them died then she'd be better off. You could bring field mechaniks and run them forward but most people would just walk around them. I'm not sure if stormguard are cheap enough for disposable guys. Sword Knights are probably cheap enough at 1.3 points per model, but then you're playing heavy metal and not storm division so you don't have enough infantry for her abilities to matter anyway. Something like temple flameguard that are cheap and fast enough to run ahead of the rest of the army would be best to trigger the feat.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 27, 2017 22:03:56 GMT
That's always been her problem. She needs cheap infantry. Stormblades are 1.667 points a model. Stormguard are 1.6. Stormblades with CA are about 1.85. I thought about storm smiths, but they're also pricey: 1.667. But we can take this convo to the Cygnar forum. lormahordes.freeforums.net/thread/1559/constance-blaize-dojo
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 27, 2017 22:27:15 GMT
I considered it for a while, but the problem is that blaize doesn't get a fantastic feat and she doesn't bring any Ranged or melee defence outside of the feat. Lots of casters in the game only have a feat to deliver their army. Blaize also gets access to arcane shield on a single unit. I think if Cygnar had a cheap disposable where it didn't hurt if 4-5 of them died then she'd be better off. You could bring field mechaniks and run them forward but most people would just walk around them. I'm not sure if stormguard are cheap enough for disposable guys. Sword Knights are probably cheap enough at 1.3 points per model, but then you're playing heavy metal and not storm division so you don't have enough infantry for her abilities to matter anyway. Something like temple flameguard that are cheap and fast enough to run ahead of the rest of the army would be best to trigger the feat. Well the fact that her feat is exactly the same as Stryker 1s but worse in most ways is a big hit
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