|
Post by copperflame on Jan 23, 2018 15:02:56 GMT
I'm complaining here because I do not want to assist the flame up on CID forums. Feel free to disregard this post because I don't think it will add any benefit than (hopefully) an safe outlet.
Come on man! I am seeing enough bias by very specific playtesters and theory crafters that it is making me worry about the CID process. I had a friend reach out to me and ask ... and I quote... "Why are Legion players so afraid of buffs?" [in context of the CID]
Note: there were some broken things (PlayingGod unlimited transfers) and still things that need to be worked out (Blightbringer animus).
When I see so much bias leaning towards other factions (Cryx and Cygnar) where some posters are actively campaigning to limit the buffs that are presented... it makes me realize that this is where the 'community' has it's dark spots.
Note: untested buffs doesn't help anyone, nor OP buffs, that's not what I'm complaining about.
I really hope that PP can read through some of this (but some of these posters seem to be regulars and that scares me).
If anyone is still reading this... I implore you, please provide Battle Reps to help offset some of this. And for those of you who already have provided Battle Reps - Everblight bless you!
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 23, 2018 15:15:13 GMT
I'm complaining here because I do not want to assist the flame up on CID forums. Feel free to disregard this post because I don't think it will add any benefit than (hopefully) an safe outlet. Come on man! I am seeing enough bias by very specific playtesters and theory crafters that it is making me worry about the CID process. I had a friend reach out to me and ask ... and I quote... "Why are Legion players so afraid of buffs?" [in context of the CID] Note: there were some broken things (PlayingGod unlimited transfers) and still things that need to be worked out (Blightbringer animus). When I see so much bias leaning towards other factions (Cryx and Cygnar) where some posters are actively campaigning to limit the buffs that are presented... it makes me realize that this is where the 'community' has it's dark spots. Note: untested buffs doesn't help anyone, nor OP buffs, that's not what I'm complaining about. I really hope that PP can read through some of this (but some of these posters seem to be regulars and that scares me). If anyone is still reading this... I implore you, please provide Battle Reps to help offset some of this. And for those of you who already have provided Battle Reps - Everblight bless you! I will stop posting when Legion players stop calling for Lightning to be nerfed! deal?
|
|
|
Post by copperflame on Jan 23, 2018 16:24:06 GMT
Haha! I can't speak for others, I don't face enough Cygnar to have an opinion (here - it is a sea of Khador and Grymkin). Is it a problem - maybe. I don't think that focusing on e-Leaps in the Legion PT CID helps anything though. I do think the core that Legion needs answers against gun-lists though (in my case, AoEs and sprays). The intent of my post wasn't to call anyone out - more venting. I just want legion (hell, most of hordes) to be raised up enough that us simple players have a chance.
|
|
unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
|
Post by unded on Jan 23, 2018 16:53:02 GMT
I have noticed 2 posters in particular who really do campaign hard to take away other people's toys (surprisingly Cygnarguy isn't one of them, although lightning stuff does need to die in a fire). It really is a bit revolting to see. The same two pulled similar stunts during the Cryx CiD.
-und_ed
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 23, 2018 17:03:54 GMT
I have noticed 2 posters in particular who really do campaign hard to take away other people's toys (surprisingly Cygnarguy isn't one of them, although lightning stuff does need to die in a fire). It really is a bit revolting to see. The same two pulled similar stunts during the Cryx CiD. -und_ed I have a different name on the CID Forums...
|
|
whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
|
Post by whydak on Jan 23, 2018 17:03:58 GMT
Some people are used to that cygnar and Cryx have good things and they feel its alright, but when some weaker faction starts to ask questions they are worried becouse they used to previous easy mode. It was visible during trollblods CID. From legion perspective it will be bad if CID stuff will be much better and make other models useless. We need to be carefull. But I see your point that some legion players are to carefull But suggesting carapace, parry on fliers and armor piercing should result in ban xD
|
|
|
Post by custardboy on Jan 23, 2018 18:20:55 GMT
It would be great if people got banned for multiple bloody stupid suggestions. One guy said Thags2 feat should be 'all beasts immediately charge.' Actually it would be nice if there was a screening process in signing up...
|
|
|
Post by bloodhawk on Jan 23, 2018 19:24:33 GMT
I noticed this same theme and it has been frustrating to see it continue. It seems like people don't want Legion to have any nice things, and suggestions of them having those things are immediately met with an uproar. Not saying everyone falls into that category, but I was surprised to see so many examples of bias in the battle reports. I recall one example where a Cygnar player complained about the armour of Chosen after attempting to kill them with non weapon master infantry and low pow shooting. What's the point of something being survivable if it can't survive some things.
In the end I just hope Legion ends up with a theme which has some resilience against guns. It seems that Chosen in Primal Terrors is our best bet, and I am hoping they make it through with that role intact. If you compare their damage output to other cavalry it isn't particularly impressive, so their whole purpose is essentially to not die to shooting.
|
|
twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179
|
Post by twity on Jan 23, 2018 19:44:01 GMT
Don't stress it, there are people on both sides. Balance is difficult, and devs are aware that people have opinions. It is not like PP is going to count the number of people with a specific opinion and balance on that, previous CID cycles have made that abundantly clear. That being said, just because you have a matchup that is difficult doesn't mean that a specific model/rule should be added to fix that, I think sometimes we (the legion community) need to work more on coming up with our own solutions instead of relying on the devs to provide one.
I think it is most worthwhile to post battle reports and specific examples of interactions you have run into and try your best not to worry about what can seem like a cacophony of people who you disagree with.
|
|
|
Post by cainuslupus on Jan 23, 2018 20:09:03 GMT
I'm complaining here because I do not want to assist the flame up on CID forums. Feel free to disregard this post because I don't think it will add any benefit than (hopefully) an safe outlet. Come on man! I am seeing enough bias by very specific playtesters and theory crafters that it is making me worry about the CID process. I had a friend reach out to me and ask ... and I quote... "Why are Legion players so afraid of buffs?" [in context of the CID] Note: there were some broken things (PlayingGod unlimited transfers) and still things that need to be worked out (Blightbringer animus). When I see so much bias leaning towards other factions (Cryx and Cygnar) where some posters are actively campaigning to limit the buffs that are presented... it makes me realize that this is where the 'community' has it's dark spots. Note: untested buffs doesn't help anyone, nor OP buffs, that's not what I'm complaining about. I really hope that PP can read through some of this (but some of these posters seem to be regulars and that scares me). If anyone is still reading this... I implore you, please provide Battle Reps to help offset some of this. And for those of you who already have provided Battle Reps - Everblight bless you! I will stop posting when Legion players stop calling for Lightning to be nerfed! deal? When people started bringing Pow 10 to check how OP Chosen are Legion players started checking their worst matchups. My favourite was Octavius Maximus rep, check the guy, he is hilarious. Extra points if you remember his stalwart defense of Haley2 and Lances being totally balanced. It's only logical that theme to be successful need a place and Legion have enough stuff that dies to shooting. On a side note - Nemo3 and/or e-leaps will get what's comming to them and probably soon. Look at Denny1, Ghost Fleet and Coven and boy - I've read and listen to tirades justifying their past state. Having next to no game into strong gunlines is something that needs to be addressed one way or another. People won't shelve hard earned cash to take theme that does nothing, rather stop playing Legion entirelly.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Jan 23, 2018 20:11:32 GMT
To be fair, this has been an issue in almost every single CiD.
Everyone wears tinted glasses, regardless of whether they notice it or not. Things like the CiD bring that out. We all have inherent Biases that cause us to draw certain conclusions.
EG: I am of the opinion that chosen were above the curve before the arm nerf, mostly because of my experience with long riders and comparing the 2. I am also more prone to not like things like the BB animus, because auto-hitting sprays hurt circle a lot.
Now to clarify I think the arm 16 change on chosen was a bit...heavy-handed but I have not had any time to test them and I really think they are getting enough attention. I also think the new BB animus, while powerful, is not broken in any way.
People tend to think I pick on certain factions, I got called out on one particular battle report post in cryx CiD a lot and when you start messing with someone else toy soldiers things can appear to get personal. The key here, is to try your personal best to keep an open mind. The devs play the game too, and they have done a decent job in the past CiD's of keeping things from going too crazy in one direction or another.
I understand the frustration though, I had similar frustration during the troll-bloods CiD.
|
|
|
Post by copperflame on Jan 23, 2018 22:33:31 GMT
I have never been as involved with a CID as I have been with this particular one (just the Battle Engine one and maybe one other). But I absolutely agree there will be some level of bias (that comes with just passion for the game). And I may be over reacting a bit since it is my particular toy soldiers I don't want to call out anyone. I did read Octavius' threads/playtests and they did surprise me. I thought he/she was a Legion player at one time? If that member and the one I am thinking of are one and the same... then that person was a rather knowledgeable, well rounded and valuable to the community. Hopefully I'm wrong or maybe there is something I'm missing... I found myself wondering having to re-read the feedback because it felt slanted. Again - I don't want to call anyone out. I don't want to devolve into something like that because there are no good outcomes. I was just venting.
|
|
|
Post by minmaximus on Jan 24, 2018 0:01:50 GMT
I think most people don't approach CID in the best way sometimes. The goal should be to have things be powerful, but not gamebreaking, when it feels like people sometimes are trying to steer models towards being more mediocre.
Sure one could argue that aiming to make things powerful ultimately leads to power creep, but on the flipside if everythings power level is very consistently middle-of-the-road it creates a lot of models who don't have much of a purpose on the table. If new releases don't bring anything worthwhile to the table, its not just an issue for PP's marketing department- its an issue for us as well, as the game inevitably gets stale.
|
|
|
Post by bloodhawk on Jan 24, 2018 0:39:59 GMT
I for one will second the idea that PP has done an excellent job of sifting through the good and bad feedback. I am in the same shoes as the OP where I just need to vent sometimes, but I am very confident PP will get the results correct. I recently picked up Cryx as my 3rd faction (Circle / Legion being my others), and I couldn't be much happier with the results of the Cryx CID.
|
|
|
Post by cainuslupus on Jan 24, 2018 1:19:45 GMT
I for one will second the idea that PP has done an excellent job of sifting through the good and bad feedback. I am in the same shoes as the OP where I just need to vent sometimes, but I am very confident PP will get the results correct. I recently picked up Cryx as my 3rd faction (Circle / Legion being my others), and I couldn't be much happier with the results of the Cryx CID. Looking at the past CiD's - yes, they did great job. Also - it's all about collecting data, just because something ends CiD in one way doesn't mean it's final state. Few things were stronger/weaker on release date than it finished CiD process. There were also tweaks to stuff that wasn't in CiD (some stuff in Trollblods got buffed). So yeah, keeping calm and trying to be constructive is the best way. It's as Pagani said - they are company, they must sell their products. New models must be interesting/strong, the CiD is to make sure they're fair.
|
|