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Post by jisidro on Aug 7, 2018 14:53:18 GMT
Dual attack is a very powerfull ability that I don't think anything with an insane number of attacks should have... ie, most of the models that have it. Dual attack alone puts the raptor in play without the previewed changes. Just the possibility of charging in doing 3 initials with leaps and then shooting whatever for chain-lightning is enough to make the rest seem good. It even has flight and tramples to make dual attack really obnoxious.
POw 18 seems like too much but they have no qualms on putting it on the 32pt Hyperion in a faction which buffs ranged attacks in every way possible so.... perhaps? But sounds too aggressive, let's see how ret cid comes out. ROF 2 would be good enough IMO. This would represent 2 fully boosted shots or almost fully boosted without the animus or 2 fully boosted shots in CotW. That sounds fair.
Plasma nimbus is a revenge ability againsty infantry/lights... no trade gets bad because you took a few pow10/12 if you kill a 30+ pt model. It's free, it's always on so... why not?
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Post by paradox on Aug 7, 2018 15:30:38 GMT
Dual attack is a very powerfull ability that I don't think anything with an insane number of attacks should have... ie, most of the models that have it. Dual attack alone puts the raptor in play without the previewed changes. Just the possibility of charging in doing 3 initials with leaps and then shooting whatever for chain-lightning is enough to make the rest seem good. It even has flight and tramples to make dual attack really obnoxious. POw 18 seems like too much but they have no qualms on putting it on the 32pt Hyperion in a faction which buffs ranged attacks in every way possible so.... perhaps? But sounds too aggressive, let's see how ret cid comes out. ROF 2 would be good enough IMO. This would represent 2 fully boosted shots or almost fully boosted without the animus or 2 fully boosted shots in CotW. That sounds fair. Plasma nimbus is a revenge ability againsty infantry/lights... no trade gets bad because you took a few pow10/12 if you kill a 30+ pt model. It's free, it's always on so... why not? My revelator can put out 2x POW17 and 2x POW14 just baseline + Battle. Animus to get the SR a d3+1 POW18s in 10” puts it pretty on par, and its still softer on the defense and worse in melee. I have NO qualms about that whatsoever.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 7, 2018 16:00:44 GMT
All at Rat 5, in a faction where the only hit fixer is KD or flare from a 16 point heavy
The raptor is Rat8 when it shoots it’s guns
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Post by paradox on Aug 7, 2018 16:30:56 GMT
All at Rat 5, in a faction where the only hit fixer is KD or flare from a 16 point heavy The raptor is Rat8 when it shoots it’s guns *RAT6, unless it casts animus and target is in 10”.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 7, 2018 17:19:48 GMT
All at Rat 5, in a faction where the only hit fixer is KD or flare from a 16 point heavy The raptor is Rat8 when it shoots it’s guns So what? Having a single acurate gun in circle isn't going to be a problem. That gun on the hype has access to mark target, snipe, accuracy feats, a feat that adds an additional die of damage ect.. We can get mark target from the moon hound, the SR's animus, curse of shadows and that's about it. Rat 8 with jumping through hoops ain't breaking the game. Rat 10 with moonhound, rat 12 if TKin'g the target for back arc.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 7, 2018 18:35:14 GMT
All at Rat 5, in a faction where the only hit fixer is KD or flare from a 16 point heavy The raptor is Rat8 when it shoots it’s guns *RAT6, unless it casts animus and target is in 10”. Your still not addressing that the Revelator cannot reasonably get the same accuracy fixer as the raptor gets without investing in a 16 point heavy who needs to hit with rat5. Raptor at range into def 12 Heavies is more consistent for Damage with its animus. Because it can boost its damage rolls and doesn’t need to boost to hit. The Revelator has to be within 10” to fire its main guns and it lacks Deceptiveley mobile. All at a lower accuracy for 1 pow higher with the 4 point investment of Chior.(1 point if you bring 4 Jacks) So for 37 points you get a less accurate shooting platform, with only slightly higher damage output at range, and who lacks reposition to back away out of threat. I’m still not convinced the Revelator is flat better at range. It needs to boost to hit just to reliably hit, something the raptor does not need to do into def 10 or 12 Heavies. Rat 8 is kind of a big deal. Also, the Revelator does have to pay for its support, where the raptor has it built in. I am all for a slight cost reduction, but nothing here is convincing me the raptor gun needs to be Pow 16 base, or RoF D3+1. Heck, I’ll even concede, if we playtest it and it feels too fury strapped, that flat RoF 2 instead of reload would be great. streetpizza Hey I’ll take Mark target on a 6 point light over mark target on a 4 point UA Officer who's unit costs 9 points any day. I’m not saying it’s busted, but I am saying it’s good, workable, and arguably strong enough to be fine where it is.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 7, 2018 18:49:55 GMT
macdaddy The Reveletor leaves the best "covering fire" in the game... 2 of them. True sight and strips stealth with RNG 14 POW 12(14) guns. That has to count for something.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 7, 2018 19:04:58 GMT
macdaddy The Reveletor leaves the best "covering fire" in the game... 2 of them. True sight and strips stealth with RNG 14 POW 12(14) guns. That has to count for something. Sure, it has utility, but so does the raptor, also keep in mind the limitations of the revelators gun, It requires it to hit and enemy model. So no taging your own things to trigger it, and it limits the amount of infantry control it can do, especially at rat 5. Stealth ignoring is great, and needed in that faction, But once again, you run into the issue of using the precious 3 focus you have to boost the secondary guns.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 7, 2018 19:13:20 GMT
IMO noone needs ways to see stealth. It's a bonus not a necessity.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 7, 2018 20:08:58 GMT
IMO noone needs ways to see stealth. It's a bonus not a necessity. When you have only one other option of seeing through it in faction (Rhoven and Co) than yes, it is porbably best to have a second option
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Post by jisidro on Aug 7, 2018 20:22:01 GMT
IMO noone needs ways to see stealth. It's a bonus not a necessity. When you have only one other option of seeing through it in faction (Rhoven and Co) than yes, it is porbably best to have a second option
Exemplars to the face are a cool counter to stealth?
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 7, 2018 20:52:48 GMT
When you have only one other option of seeing through it in faction (Rhoven and Co) than yes, it is porbably best to have a second option
Exemplars to the face are a cool counter to stealth? haha fair, hard to miss with a sword to the face
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Post by kuririnad on Aug 7, 2018 21:17:59 GMT
What if the wording on the animus changed to make it so that you got the bonuses if the shooter was in SR command and not the target? I feel like it + mist riders become the backbone of a very solid secret master's list. Ads I'm the Fulcrum for a serious lightning gunline.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 7, 2018 22:35:57 GMT
What if the wording on the animus changed to make it so that you got the bonuses if the shooter was in SR command and not the target? I feel like it + mist riders become the backbone of a very solid secret master's list. Ads I'm the Fulcrum for a serious lightning gunline. Nemo3 has demonstrated that those kinds of buffs are bad.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 8, 2018 0:16:51 GMT
What if the wording on the animus changed to make it so that you got the bonuses if the shooter was in SR command and not the target? I feel like it + mist riders become the backbone of a very solid secret master's list. Ads I'm the Fulcrum for a serious lightning gunline. Nemo3 has demonstrated that those kinds of buffs are bad. Butcher1 is one of the last remaining instances and it's always been strong.
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