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Post by Lord_Randall on Aug 24, 2018 13:13:09 GMT
Rapid healing make them incredibly resilient to blasts and random pow 10/11 shoots or not-charge/weaponmaster melee swings. As added bonus stacks well with armor buffs. And any defensive bubble (FoW, Gale Wind) coupled with tough and improved no-KD aura from shaman (up to 8") make them fairly resilient to elite shooting too. Is a quite substantial improvement.
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Post by challenger on Aug 24, 2018 21:57:30 GMT
Rapid healing make them incredibly resilient to blasts and random pow 10/11 shoots or not-charge/weaponmaster melee swings. As added bonus stacks well with armor buffs. And any defensive bubble (FoW, Gale Wind) coupled with tough and improved no-KD aura from shaman (up to 8") make them fairly resilient to elite shooting too. Is a quite substantial improvement. I played them once pre cid with an accommodating opponent. Rapid healing means they will go down to direct hits very often to decent shots but it means that pow 10 to 12 begins to struggle to kill them efficiently. I really like it because those are the most common infantry guns. They still go down on average to military rifles doing a 2 man CRA (on a 7 for damage) but i think its a really subtle buff for them thats not insane like a flat +2 arm vs shooting which is better than rapid healing in many cases (that cra becomes ineffective). Forcing an opponent to make more inefficient attacks is great. They go down to boosted pow 10s and charge attacks easy still
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Post by paradox on Aug 24, 2018 22:19:30 GMT
Ravagers also have Tough. Rapid Healing is very strong with Tough, especially with a no KD effect. Its a significant buff.
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Post by Lord_Randall on Aug 24, 2018 22:53:07 GMT
Rapid healing make them incredibly resilient to blasts and random pow 10/11 shoots or not-charge/weaponmaster melee swings. As added bonus stacks well with armor buffs. And any defensive bubble (FoW, Gale Wind) coupled with tough and improved no-KD aura from shaman (up to 8") make them fairly resilient to elite shooting too. Is a quite substantial improvement. I played them once pre cid with an accommodating opponent. Rapid healing means they will go down to direct hits very often to decent shots but it means that pow 10 to 12 begins to struggle to kill them efficiently. I really like it because those are the most common infantry guns. They still go down on average to military rifles doing a 2 man CRA (on a 7 for damage) but i think its a really subtle buff for them thats not insane like a flat +2 arm vs shooting which is better than rapid healing in many cases (that cra becomes ineffective). Forcing an opponent to make more inefficient attacks is great. They go down to boosted pow 10s and charge attacks easy still You have to factor the whole to hit/to damage/healing/tough process... If you are doing a 2 man CRA, against a FoW/gale Winded/terrain using ravager you have to roll 7 or 8 to hit, you have to roll 7 to kill, then you have tough and no-kd... actual chance of killing a Ravager is low. This is what make ravagers strong against shooting, lots of average dice-rolls involved for the kill coulpled with the unit being 7 models. Rapid healing skew this situation even more, preventing cheap damage staking. And if you start combining 3 models at time your volume of fire become very low and is a very bad thing against a tharn army. Elite guns have to boost, then roll average, then boost for ensuring the kill and then you have a chance with tough. Best weapons against ravagers are gunbunnies and chargers and even a charger have only around 75% chance to kill one of them. Ravegers army are resilient to shooting not because on average you can't kill one of them, but because they force you to go trough a lot of average dice rolling. They absolutly eat your resources and even if you manage to kill 3-4 of them you are in a world of pain because they treath 14" now and with mini-feat they can go deep and set a nasty net of jam and free strikes and mulch every shooting infantry they touch. Is even bette then +2 arm for their gameplay, because make trying to pile in cheap damage very risky and even counterproductive.
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Post by LoS Jaden on Aug 24, 2018 23:29:03 GMT
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Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 25, 2018 0:05:25 GMT
Oh, great. A Troll player, a Protectorate player, and a Minions player who THINK they know all about Circle. What scrubs.
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Post by elshinare on Aug 25, 2018 3:08:56 GMT
With Bloodweavers getting divine inspiration and trackers getting parry and repo3 what are people's ideas of lists with them? between Iona and Baldur1 they seem like they could get decent work done...
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Post by challenger on Aug 25, 2018 5:14:36 GMT
With Bloodweavers getting divine inspiration and trackers getting parry and repo3 what are people's ideas of lists with them? between Iona and Baldur1 they seem like they could get decent work done... I really want weavers to change because i'm kinda unimpressed with them. Divine inspiration is always incredible but bloodweavers just aren't great unit to invest so much in. Grievous is their best bit of tech, but even with S&P they're not going to be really contributing in a meta that doesn't take victim statted troops anymore. Trackers on the other hand are an incredible screen and i can see them getting used in a lot of Iona, Wurmwood, Baldur1 etc lists
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 29, 2018 0:47:50 GMT
Oh, great. A Troll player, a Protectorate player, and a Minions player who THINK they know all about Circle. What scrubs. *cough cough* Charles played Circle religiously
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Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 29, 2018 0:49:12 GMT
Oh, great. A Troll player, a Protectorate player, and a Minions player who THINK they know all about Circle. What scrubs. *cough cough* Charles played Circle religiously Does that make him a heretic now, then? Or just an apostate?
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Post by jisidro on Aug 29, 2018 8:51:29 GMT
@lord_Randall
You're overstating the resilience of the Ravagers. Vengeance is granted which means the CA's death may be enough to deny any vengeance return blow. No KD is a spell on a 5pt solo who can't run around, he has to move and do his action. This complicates things in various ways from anti-magic to him dying.
I'm not saying they are bad or that Tough-no-kd is bad I'm just saying that most of their resilience is tough.
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Post by Lord_Randall on Aug 29, 2018 11:04:09 GMT
@lord_Randall You're overstating the resilience of the Ravagers. Vengeance is granted which means the CA's death may be enough to deny any vengeance return blow. No KD is a spell on a 5pt solo who can't run around, he has to move and do his action. This complicates things in various ways from anti-magic to him dying. I'm not saying they are bad or that Tough-no-kd is bad I'm just saying that most of their resilience is tough. I'm not overstating, I'm just telling you my experience after hundreds of DH games...
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 29, 2018 12:24:46 GMT
While im not sure of the impact of rapid healing on a unit with low arm, I will say that ravagers are workable before CiD changes, so it’s not like they need something drastic.
I tend to think rapid healing is a bad rule, that further punished bad dice and can mitigate good dice. It’s a very frustrating rule to play against without anti healing tech. So I’m on the “let’s be cautious about this” team because rapid healing is a bonkers rule on its own, even if the unit in question is only arm 15. It basically makes them “immune” to iunboosted infantry attacks up to pow 12.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 29, 2018 12:55:13 GMT
macdaddyI'm working on that. I'll have some math to post... My feeling is that it's not very relevant until you hit high ARM. So on armor 15 Ravagers it does very little, on arm 17/18 perhaps it does enough. Keep in mind chosen have 8 boxes and will play with ARM 19-21 this means that a pow 17 means nothing... A pow 17 against an arm 17 Ravagers kills on a 5+.
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Post by Lord_Randall on Aug 29, 2018 13:52:02 GMT
Pow 17 is the common pow of guns? The rule is clearly targeted at making male tharns resilient to Small arms fire
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