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Post by wolfchild on Feb 9, 2018 23:58:15 GMT
Only have Kueger2, Kromac1 and Kaya1 to use, can sub Tharn Wolfrider champ as Kaya3 or Una1 as 2, but otherwise stuck for casters.
Definitely wanna pick up Death Wolves when I get chance n funds again (wasted last drop on Bloodpack, very hopeful advance purchase b4 CID).
Any suggestions if I drop Wolfrider champ n a unit? Options are those I listed before or my stable of beasts: Feral, Ghetorix, Pureblood, (Loki), Scarsfel, Razorwing, 2x Wild Argus
Trying to make something work out my current options.
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Post by wolfchild on Feb 9, 2018 10:48:15 GMT
Here’s the list:
Theme: The Devourer's Host
Krueger the Stormlord - WB: +27 - Warpwolf Stalker - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Gorax Rager - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7)
Tharn Ravager Shaman - PC: 0 Bloodweaver Night Witch - PC: 4 Tharn Wolf Rider Champion - PC: 8
Tharn Ravagers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 16 - Tharn Ravager Chieftain - PC: 0 Tharn Ravagers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 11 - Tharn Ravager Chieftain - PC: 0 Tharn Bloodweavers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8 Tharn Bloodtrackers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 Tharn Wolf Riders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 11
I see most folk using Dev.Host have got multiple entries of units and bring Death wolves. - Do I need the multiples to avoid giving away my plans/for redundancy? - Can Dev Host work without the Death Wolves? - How do u deal with armour? I’m really not sure how to deal with armour in this list without pushing up and risking my Stalker. - Considered swapping Night witch for Whitemane since I’m a point short of 75 and it’d mean 9 hearts.
This feels like a really bad drop into high def, high arm, lots of shooting. Is that just Dev Host, or just due to the holes in my list?
Other models available are: 2 more wolf riders Lord of the Feast Nuala Whitemane Gallows grove 2x shifting stones plus living beasts
Please advise
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Post by wolfchild on Feb 8, 2018 12:03:30 GMT
Tharn CID Had an idea about improving Tharn Blood Pack. Keep their lower power melee weapons, but increase the melee range to 2” (since the ‘bow blade’, if using the bows as a melee weapon is the same length as the Ravagers axes anyway). It would mean they could actually get use out of Heart Eater when they assault/ still have something to hit if their bow killed the charge target. Due to lower POW and no overtake etc, they wouldn’t be replacing Ravagers’ roll and could start to have tabletop relevance.
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Post by wolfchild on Feb 3, 2018 17:26:19 GMT
Agreed. If RFP vs Recursion continues it’d be like the farce of Flaming vs Immune to Flaming that occurred in Warhammer Fantasy b4 AoS.
The main focus needs to be upon improving our Tharn, once the units and support pieces work more effectively on their own, we’ll have far better perspective as to how our casters (Kromacs and Morvannas especially) need to change. Largely Elite cadre and a spell change would work nicely for either Kromac. Kro2 with Warpath would be awesome, esp if it was battlegroup models, not just warbeasts in his battlegroup.
Ravagers are so difficult to balance specifically because of their exponential threat via Heart Eater, yet it’s the cool factor that makes them Ravagers. Brutal charge paired with any buff/debuff on target (from caster/otherwise) could make them precisely the jack n heavy infantry threat that they should be. They should rely on a feat to work, but the effects of a feat should make them excel.
How to fix Blood Pack tho is beyond me.
The girls all need something as Stealth and DEF14 just isn’t enough these days. Drift a template over them and they die in droves, largely doing little in return. Without spikes I’m rarely hitting anything they can hurt, so mostly they become jamming/scenario pieces.
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Post by wolfchild on Feb 1, 2018 16:04:05 GMT
... I really don't think they will stack even more on this guy. He is stupidly hard and hard-hitting already. He just does nothing for Tharn outside of Carnage. But I think PP kinda meant him that way. Maybe Kromac1 could be more tharn-centric? I just feel they really want Kromac2 to be a beast-focused warlock. Stupidly Hard was just redefined on thagrosh2 that got +2 ARM, got the ARM buff to affect himself, makes a transfer target when hit and now has Sac pawn to it. As to Hard hitting, that he is but on a Large base which means he is a Cav caster without cav rules and SPD. Just like Bradigus, Just like Terminus, Just like Thagrosh2. I feel he needs/wants a Pureblood and a Stalker to give him Blessed as needed and sprint because he needs it... Can he still afford Ghetorix? He'll never gain canibal magic but I'd like the canibal human/living sacrificing faction to get some sort of blood boon/Spell ability... I feel his feat going to FFM would open him up, but a tweak to his spell list could do the trick. I'd just like one of the Tharn kings to use Tharns well. They should both be able to run Tharn, but I agree that making Kro2’s Feat FFM would be too much. Swapping out a spell on each and/or an ability that buffs nearby Tharn would work well. If it wasn’t for White Mane giving Ravagers +1 MAT u could well give Kromac (an inspirational leader) the same or a different area buff to Ravagers/Tharn. Maybe switch it up between Kro1 and Kro2.
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Post by wolfchild on Feb 1, 2018 0:35:46 GMT
paradox - he doesn't compare favorably with other 'beast' casters like Butcher, Barny2, etc. He's very killable, and you have to be careful about how you commit him. Unlike a caster like Thagrosh2 (who is...comparable...in terms of tankiness) he doesn't have a splashy BG efficiency spell like manifest destiny. He either needs to be more able to contribute personally without being at risk of dying, and/or he needs to improve his army support abilities. Personally, I think you could ditch the additional beastiness in combat if you swapped Awakened spirit for a better spell, and made the change to the feat to target 'models.' Then he could feasibly play in CoTW, Bones, or Devhost, which would give him a lot of flexibility in list-building. forthehorde - Don't you dare touch warpath. That's one of the last pieces of out-of-activation movement tech that Circle has. What Kromac1 needs is either a damage buff, or something that gives him more survivability into guns. One of those weaknesses is fine, both make him hard to slot into a pairing (as your offlist then has to handle both, and both are GENERALLY a problem for Circle lists). Got to agree, DO NOT even think about ditching Warpath! If I had to lose any spell on Kromac1 it’d be Rift. I know some folk got major use out of it via Geomancy, but not using Wolds means I’ve never got game out of it. Kromac1 could do with a tweak, but generally he’s not bad. His Feat still requires him to cut though, which a couple other casters (Butcher for 1) get all their Focus back without cutting.... Never understood why Kromac1 had to. As with Kromac2 Feat also could do with a tweak, they should both be able to run Tharn as a Tharn King. Maybe giving each a unit buff spell, or even a debuff to help our Tharn do more work. Of course if we had an idea how they would patch up our failing Tharn units then the spells required could fill the remaining gaps or else give them that final edge to be devastating in the right circumstances. It would be nice to want to run Tharn units outside of Dev Host too. No unit should be so dependant on theme, to not be run without it. My main hopes lie in giving the different units their own purpose (not just infantry mulching for all). Male Tharn (Ravagers and Bloodpack) esp Bloodpack need a boost to be effective. Tharn WolfRiders just need something .... they’re too expensive for a unit that misses so often on RAT6. They needed Prey to be reliable enough to justify their points and really annoyance is a terrible rule for a unit that hates being locked in melee. Give them back Hunter, to attack thru forests. Hell, the Menoth girls get sidestep, parry, 2 attacks, weaponmaster ..... If our girls are close enough to throw then even with repo5, they’re gonna get mulched the next turn.
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Post by wolfchild on Jan 20, 2018 15:02:49 GMT
Blood pack need something more than points reduction to be viable. They’re crap at melee with the 0.5” reach and can’t use Heart Eater from range. Maybe they could use bushwhack or something similar..... or even some fluff so they can get hearts at range.... i know it’s unlikely, but crit KD on those big bows might be nice ....
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Post by wolfchild on Jan 18, 2018 23:30:38 GMT
Hmmm, that’s weird. Either my WarRoom needs an update or I’d missed a glaringly obvious line. Thank you and apologies. I think I was thrown off by the “tactical tip”, which suggests a manikin becomes unit leader if the stone dies. As ever the “tactical tips” are never tactical, but just rewrite something already mentioned above, or in this case, downright lie.
Why are they even on the cards?!
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Post by wolfchild on Jan 17, 2018 23:38:32 GMT
I didn’t think (from wording on the card) that manikins die if the Sentry Stone does, just that they won’t come back and can no longer boost anything. Nothing on the card says if sentry Stone is destroyed / RFP that they are also removed. Is this an omission on the card for Stone n twiglets, or is the assumption of removed a hangover from MkII?
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Post by wolfchild on Jan 17, 2018 23:21:52 GMT
The things that you’d need finisher on aren’t really great targets for a POW9 unit. That’s basically light warbeasts (warjack armour too high) and the rare heavy (ie multibox) infantry w low armour, eg Ravagers, possibly the odd solo. It’s a real niche to find something w multiple boxes that can be reliably hurt by POW9 (11 w gang). Most things with weapon master (lets be real, that's what finisher really is) are in that pow range to start. Pow9 (again lets be real 11 since you'll never go in on something multiwound / high arm without triggering gang) can be buffed very quickly for excellent results. Curse of shadows or strength of stone and suddenly you're at 13. Add on rust from Hutchuk and now you're rocking 15+4D6 on a charge. I have to imagine hordes will a minion version of Ragman some day ... right? Its a change that would make an opponent have to respect their damage potential. As is right now you can just put a high arm blocker in front of the unit and laugh at them. Circle infantry in general is pretty pillow fisted. I would welcome any changes that improve that situation. My point was that “finisher” is there on models that have already been damaged. If ur racking up 3 different buffs to make finisher rock then of course it’s gonna work, but it has to be against a target that is gonna be left damaged but not dead AND worth throwing a unit at. WeaponMaster is always on, so u can use that on high ARM grunts and 5 box minis that usually die to the one good spike. Finisher is lost on those targets, so u have to pick on things 8 boxes plus .... it becomes a LOT more restrictive. All that said, I agree we do need something to improve our infantry. Whether it comes from stacking boosts from solos and UAs or directly from unit rules, they need something.
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Post by wolfchild on Jan 14, 2018 21:55:17 GMT
The things that you’d need finisher on aren’t really great targets for a POW9 unit. That’s basically light warbeasts (warjack armour too high) and the rare heavy (ie multibox) infantry w low armour, eg Ravagers, possibly the odd solo. It’s a real niche to find something w multiple boxes that can be reliably hurt by POW9 (11 w gang).
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Post by wolfchild on Jan 12, 2018 22:04:33 GMT
Just 1 tweak to that, bloodweavers healing action to change to something more useful.
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Post by wolfchild on Jan 8, 2018 13:59:21 GMT
I’d love to feel it worthwhile using any kind of wolfriders again, so please tell us if and how it worked. I’m currently using my Wolfrider champ as Kaya3. It could actually make me buy Kaya!
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Post by wolfchild on Jan 2, 2018 16:58:13 GMT
I’ve already been running something very similar with Kata3 and much of the time not needed repo. Wild Aggression can do something similar to the Synergy boost. I think u could struggle versus heavy shooting forces that can bunker up, but then I guess they suffer on scenario instead. Beware most of the threat ranges rely on charges, so all it take is a well placed bit of terrain / los blocker / etc to drop ur max threat by 4”. Of course Warpath helps a little there.
I’ve been trying to avoid using pKromac as about 95% of my total games have been running him. But having only picked up Ghetorix in last few months (and only used him 2x), I may have to try this myself after I’ve done testing an OOT list. Please let us know how it goes n if u switch grove/stones out for 2nd blackclad. Stones are great for stripping fury off pureblood letting others threat upfield after its spray triggers warpath. If ur not using them for janky extraction. Have fun
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Post by wolfchild on Dec 31, 2017 11:41:28 GMT
proxy tanith if you want to use Loki... also, your current list will greatly benefit from a wild argus (regular argus). Unfortunately, if you want to take full advantage of things like berserk or synergies, you'll need to actually hit first. Unlike factions like Skorne who have beasts with 7 or 8 mat, circle is stuck at 6 unless you get into the character jacks. Before your alpha or even an assassination run, blitz up and cast dopplar bark first. It's not only an auto hit (It is an automatic effect, not a collateral, blast, or even an attack or debuff, it's just an effect), but it will make every hit that you don't roll double 1s on an auto hit; I'm pretty sure it's the reason we don't have any artillery as it makes even the nastiest of targets easily hittable, even at 1 rat. Unfortunately the threat of a Wild Argus’ bark is 8” (unless it can charge something inside 9.5”, which brings it to just 11”) without a Warpath trigger or something else. Hunter’s mark is far from reliable against 13+ DEF. This is why unless I’m playing CoW theme, the Argus doesn’t get a look in. To keep it alive we need to keep it back, (with only SPD 6 and DEF 14, it’s that much easier to kill w a couple of decent CRAs or a jack’s cannon), but to make it useful it needs to be up front, ahead of the pack. As macdaddy says, the threat of our warpwolves is just better. With Kromac1’s Wild Aggression we can fairly reliably mash up most jacks w almost any Warpwolf but the pureblood. Im not quite sure why there’s so much MAT creep in the game as it destabilises the 2d6 mechanic. All these jacks and character jacks upto MAT 7 and 8 is bad for the game. There’s now a need to boost DEF scores or other unit/beast/solos’ etc DEF to compensate ...... or we reset to where things should be, before DEF 18+ becomes a thing. Circle had an impressive number of DEF 14 options in the past which WAS hard to hit, this is why so much of our game has changed as 14 is now the old 13 and as our units stats have remained average, several other forces effective DEF and ARM stats have increased to compensate for the shift. Now our rare Prey or Gang is needed, not the bonus it once was. Getting into a rant, maybe this should be brought to CID or at least feature somewhere in general discussion. MAT Creep IS a problem.
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