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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 30, 2017 4:42:22 GMT
What does Sons have to do with getting to Pow 20? New to Cygnar, whoops... You could use Arlan to give magic weapons to a Jack, and then tag something with Rune Mark from Falk, seems a bit convoluted though Convoluted? Seriously? Falk has a 14 inch threat and most of our jacks under Kraye have a 12 to 15 inch threat range. Saying you cannot protect him or place him properly on approach then you have bigger issues at some of the basics of this game. The issue is knowing when to go for +2 damage buff for chances if he doesn't kill something when he sprays to trigger Run n Gun he will die on counter strike.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 29, 2017 20:07:22 GMT
But Kraye doesn't crack armour very well due to a lack of damage buffs and Cygnar heavies in general being pretty light hitters. That is why you use him in Sons list. POW 20 will put a hurting on most things.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 28, 2017 18:06:37 GMT
Christmas style releases may work for factions that have most things fleshed out like Cryx. PP goal should be getting the main factions to 6 themes and 3 to 4 with the minor ones.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 22, 2017 16:27:27 GMT
They have repeatedly said that we're not getting a Morrowan theme any time in the near future unless there were a looooot of models released for it. They specifically said they don't want to release a faction or theme based upon 1 model was the statement. Currently Church of Morrow doesn't fall under that case, HELL, even Crucible guard had less models then morrowans and yet a whole faction coming out for them. I think we need to sweep this thinking under the rug
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 21, 2017 21:22:14 GMT
As I posted in the Cygnar forum
Between the announcement of next year's CID and seeing that Cryx got a total of 6 themes, I began wondering when will other faction's get there final 1 to 2 themes to catch up. When that happens I am curious to know (and hear what other people think) what those themes will be and what benefits will be available to them.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 21, 2017 21:21:36 GMT
As I posted in the Cygnar forum
Between the announcement of next year's CID and seeing that Cryx got a total of 6 themes, I began wondering when will other faction's get there final 1 to 2 themes to catch up. When that happens I am curious to know (and hear what other people think) what those themes will be and what benefits will be available to them.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 21, 2017 21:00:21 GMT
I know this was done on facebook a few months ago but I seriously think that the 2 themes that will be made available will be the obvious ones. Church of Morrow and Cygnarian reconnaissance Service. For Church of Morrow benefits, I see them going like this - Sword Knights and Runewood gain Precursor Tag
- 20 points of precursor models/units gain free solo or UA (the typical one)
- When Precursor models within warcaster's control are destroyed that model does not give a corpse or soul token to enemy models.
- Warjacks gain Righteous Vengeance
Warcasters would be open to everyone. Units would be mainly precursor units and sword knight units Solos - Runewood, Versh, & Junior warcasters Warjacks - all non-character warjacks I also see Constance Blaize possibly getting worked on (maybe even a full rework) as well as the theme gaining a few units/models. For those of you who saw this homebrew on the facebook page, I was hoping the theme would gain a new light melee-oriented warjack (something cygnar doesn't have), a precursor gun mage unit, a support precursor solo, precursor heavy cav, and a sword knight weapon attachment called Longswords that has reach and rapid strike.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 21, 2017 20:39:07 GMT
Between the announcement of next year's CID and seeing that Cryx got a total of 6 themes, I began wondering when will other faction's get there final 1 to 2 themes to catch up. When that happens I am curious to know (and hear what other people think) what those themes will be and what benefits will be available to them.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 11, 2017 21:17:40 GMT
But Nemo1 is far from bad. This is what we established so far in Nemo1's current form. Pros - Can get up to 11 focus to take advantage of spell list (and field marshal meaning warjacks can have up to 4 focus)
- Feat can slow down Warjack heavy armies
- Decent threat extension spell/STR buff spell towards warjacks
Cons - Signature Spell does not work on hordes(and be casted 1 time)
- Slambot tactic not something only Nemo1 can do
- Feat main use is on Warjack heavy armies with no access to empower
- Electrically Immune models means his feat is useless
- In general, has trouble with speedy lists
- No personal board presence
Again Nemo1 is in the lower echelon of Cygnar casters with 2nd tier casters like Caine1, Stryker3, Kraye, Darius, and Siege2 all being stronger and better at handling the current meta.
gmonkey
Its not about Nemo1 hate. It was a discussion that I felt that didn't need to be in Nemo2 thread and we decided to talk about it in its own thread.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 11, 2017 18:31:35 GMT
Voltaic snare doesn't work on the mountain king Bad caster is bad See even I was already thinking of terms of it working on hordes and it still is a minor speedbump!
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 11, 2017 18:13:49 GMT
snarlyyow So you say snare target is not a minor speed bump? Doomie3 POD list with MK you "edit: lets say you can actually"snare him he still has a 9 inch melee threat range with a 17 inch spray range. POW 16s boosted damage still hurts despite decel. You take him out of the equation lets say, you still have brawler or earthborne (sometimes both) as well as a few lights (slag, bouncer, axer) who can put a hurting on you. You out threat them by 1 inch (unless list includes laynssa) but they're tough enough to tank most of your tools unless you focus fire. Even then advantage is still in favor of Doomy. Same can be said with Ragnor's POD were Basher spam will certainly become a thing. You say it counters Ret, Issy double MSHF/3 arc nodes/Hyperion will certainly counter your list in SR17. The combo of blessed shots/jack hunter, blinding light, arcane vortex, and 17 inch threat Hyperion (even while snared) will be a tough one for you. Simply put, you snare him he blinds Dynamo and the fireflies (or nemo and your really screwed). She can cast his spell 4 times if need be, you cast it once. Skorne & Cryx in general just puts a damper on you. I mean I can keep listing lists that are active in the meta that can out punch you, out shoot you, or out play you in scenario (and sometimes do both 2 of the 3). Which comes back to the same thing I said prior, Nemo is just not effective enough and that he has too many hard counters. Like I also said before change voltiac snare to how I have it listed above and change his feat to how I have it listed above. Then you can begin to start countering some of those battlegroup heavy lists I mentioned above.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 11, 2017 2:13:13 GMT
His feat is fine. If it were better it would be better, obviously. But disruption is really strong in MKIII and will continue to be so. I'm sorry I don't know how you can say that with a straight face when every faction but 2 have Empower and most of those factions that have access to Empower can bring 2 to 3 solos to hand it out. Add in the fact in Cygnar they can just bring Storm Division and be completely immune to the feat means you don't have a feat. Disruption while a potent ability, was a lot stronger in MK1 and MK2 when many factions had no way to get out of being disrupted. This is the reason why I want it changed simply because so many things get around it. Yes, I get that chances are you will probably want to boost the damage to ensure it goes off. That a 2 cost spell with spending 1 to boost damage can net you no result but also understand that a 2 cost spell that you can cast once and it only affects warjacks means that the warjack, if it has range capabilities, will still contribute. Its not a shutdown, its a minor speed bump. The AOE is nice but a decent player will remember to spread out to ensure not more then one is caught. The only place were the spell in its current form outshines what I am suggesting is against spell immune models simply because you can put something within AOE range and still clip the model. Again the reason why I am suggesting what I am suggesting you can cast this spell multiple times and it works against beasts/warjacks alike. Its potent enough to target 1 beast/jack but not overpowered enough even if you target 3 separate jacks/beasts. The 3 cost is perfect for that.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 11, 2017 0:03:05 GMT
snarlyyowYour own comments. From 1st to latest ones Your next following statement seems like a total contradiction. I mean if you played him plenty you would have not needed to say this in that same exact post. I'm sorry with that last statement you basically admitted you really haven't played. Even if your play time slowed as of October that would be a few good months to have a grasp. I mean my play time slowed down majorly between June and August but I was able to play enough to understand Stryker1 double colossal list wasn't that strong in SR17 and Storm Division version of him was better. Now it seems like you didn't even read what I suggested. You just swept it under the rug and claimed it is too strong. Shall I take you down a walk on memory lane on what else is allegedly too strong that we screamed OP! at prior to having it? I mean that in itself would totally derail the thread but I've heard folks say that before when someone suggests something and yet PP comes out with that exact thing and it didn't break the meta. 1st things first If Voltaic Snare changes to what I suggested would be a single target anti-battlegroup spell. Want to know what other spell exists in the game thats similar to that but bigger in application? Strangehold. Thats a big "F U" spell at 2 cost. These spells work in similar ways and I am suggesting it becomes more expensive and losing the AOE. Sorry if I fail to see the outrage. 2nd the feat You say thats ungodly strong? I'm sorry, have you seen Denny1's feat and Haley2's feat (even after rework). There are plenty of stronger feats that have bigger applications compared to this. This suggestion to the feat only effects battlegroups and doesn't have the -4 def debuff on top of it. Pow 15 suggests is enough to damage armor 20 warjacks/beasts but at the same time isn't enough to completely destroy one from out the gate without focus fire. In its current state, the electric damage type of his feat (while thematic) and disruption can get negated. 3rd Overpower/extra ability I have a love & never use relationship with Overpower. I see its applications but the majority of the time I rather use the focus for other purposes. I also feel having an extra ability that can make up for a few more corner case situations (because lets face it, Nemo is very pigeonholed) The idea of awe/blessing of morrow was just one of them. Giving him more options (like the suggestion of adding scramble) doesn't hurt. Remember they reworked other casters like Kraye and made him extraordinary. They can do the same here... heck we can have a whole CID about it.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 9, 2017 21:28:01 GMT
octaviusmaximus Reason why I am against Magnetic Hold is because it is an upkeep. A lot of other armies have ways to remove it. Volatic Snare is slightly better because it is a spell effect as oppose to an upkeep
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 9, 2017 19:15:35 GMT
snarlyyow Here is my thing, I can point out these 2 things you said. 1. You really haven't played Nemo1 recently in SR17 2. You acknowledge a lot has changed from April til now So if you are admitting your things why continue to even argue the point? You acknowledge your experience is limited and basing a lot of what you say on old data and speculation at best. I will answer some of your questions but I will say hear out my rework and reasoning behind it before you continue to say hes fine when he is most definitely not. First things first, in SR16 I agree with you are saying about Nemo1. I came to similar conclusion. I agree he had game back then. But moving on... While Jarle & Trevor really don't play that much anymore. You still have Keith, Jay, and Patrick who while may play other factions currently have extensive knowledge on cygnar as a whole. While I had a quick chit chat with Patrick about Nemo1 time didn't permit me to have a lengthy discussion and overall his words were "He's okay". Now keep in mind, I have had the pleasure to play against Patrick over a dozen times through Vassal and it seems he does prefer Stryker1, Haley3, and Haley2. But as far as meta shifts and why people will still consider a caster like Caine3 good but don't look at Nemo1 too much is because he seems way too niche. Don't get me wrong, as you pointed out when Nemo1 counters what you bring its a definite hard counter but what if you play hordes or really heavily armored skews (whether its medium infantry or in Dwarves case, mass Forgeguard with battle engine). It just won't hold up. Now you say you are willing to go into some horde match ups and as you said a few times you fought Lylith3 and won it was probably due to her list make up. Wasn't because Decel beats Wraithbane which I am sorry dude Wraithbane ignores Decel, I think you meant to say is I can apply Decel easier then a Legion player can hand out Wraithbane. But in short, the tool sets that Nemo1 brings while useful are mainly too static and too pigeonholed to 1 type of enemy. Caine3 can apply his debuff relatively easy and can his army focus fire. As Dark pointed out, you are seeing him in Storm Division lists which means you will fight 1 BE/Hurricane(sometimes both) with Lances, chargers, and Fireflies to fill the gaps. Thats a pow 19 shot boostable coming from the Strider and a POW 20 boostable shot coming from Hurricane pre-feat. I understand sometimes pure damage isn't always the answer and sometimes tools to slow the enemy down is better but I can tell you many people will go for damage. My idea for a Nemo1 rework would be this: He is the anti-battlegroup caster. Voltaic snare should be changed to cost 3/AOE 0 "This attack causes no damage. Warjacks and Warbeasts hit suffer -4 DEF and cannot run, charge, or make slam or trample power attacks for one round". This way we increase the cost to where it can only be cast 3 times max per round. It loses the AOE so it is meant to be a single target spell(which also means if a jack/beast somehow gains spell immunity voltiac snare does nothing). By allowing Voltiac Snare to work against beasts it increases its usefulness by debuffing beasts as well. He should gain Scramble His feat should be POW 15(None damage type as oppose to being electrical) to all enemy warbeasts and warjacks in his control area. Warbeasts and warjacks damaged by Electrical Storm cannot run, charge, or make slam or trample attacks for one round. (part of me wants to add Battle engines to this but I am unsure) While may not be mass disruption, you have the spell scramble that you can arc out and it will slow down battlegroup heavy armies. I am not sure how I feel about Overpower but I definitely feel he should gain another ability on top of that. Being that he is Nemo I don't see why he can't have an anti beast/jack version of awe or blessing of Morrow. Yes, makes him slightly more tanky but again it goes with the theme of him being strong against battlegroup armies.
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