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Post by jpgreat1 on Jan 7, 2019 3:38:35 GMT
The circle CID had the most well-organized faction group out of all of them. Inside of facebook, Discord, and Vassal there are a large number of competitive Circle players who are very well networked and discussed things outside of the CID forums largely before coming to a consensus. It's not surprising that the conclusions were similar. That explains well how abomination like Iona went through. bahahahaha Good one Cause surely you can't be serious this has to be a good joke. Great joke man good sarcasm
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Post by jpgreat1 on Nov 26, 2018 23:26:56 GMT
I wouldn't do 1 change while I think the faction overall is in a good spot here at the changes I would do
Blitzer change point cost to 15 and animus to be shooting Gallery (1 cost animus) Slag animus to become target self 1 cost corrosion immunity, melee/range weapons get corrosion continuous effect on hit, and range weapon becomes AOE 3. Night troll animus to become target self 1 cost Murderous Storm Troll to become 8 points Impaler to gain powerful attack on spear(throwing), ROF 2, and MAT 6
Horthol become weapon master on long hammer Horgle1 discount beasts under his command by 1 like he did in MK2 Kithkar gain gang fighter Skinner loses a point and gains feign death
Dhunian Knots become free in POD theme & gain serenity as a permanent ability (give +1 threshold instead of +2 to POD theme) Burrowers get returned to MK2 levels of abilities Scattergunners gain assault Scattergunner UA gains mini-feat of 10 inch sprays Sons of Bragg rework (a discussion deserving of its own thread) Highwayman become range 10 Runeshapers gain AD and become 8 points Scouts become 9 points and gain critical grievous and reposition 3 Warders become same point cost as champions
Things they need to add to help units Warder Shaman - same stats as base warders - gives them prayers of elemental ward, steady/sturdy, or Magic weapons. Tactics Gang & Granted Repo 3. 5 points Highwayman Heavy Gunner - Has 2 hand cannons - special CRA rule that allows them to CRA with other highwayman but its a +2 damage versus +1 Burrower UA that gives them Luck & critical knockdown Scout Trapper (has a net toss Quake AOE 3) 1 point same stats as Scouts
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Post by jpgreat1 on Nov 26, 2018 23:02:46 GMT
Join the Vassal discord. You will see me homebrew a bunch of stuff and ofcourse other people tell me I'm crazy
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Post by jpgreat1 on Oct 15, 2018 14:54:29 GMT
Congrats on the win. You went 8 and 1 overall right?
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Post by jpgreat1 on Jun 6, 2018 16:40:37 GMT
I swear everytime I come onto these forums I see some sort of god awful Female Dogy whiny post that I believe its less that they feel the game isn't doing well and more just flat out trolling to rile up folks. Its even worse when I go through the thread and see the same 4 to 5 people just completely bash this game that I have to ask if this is how you feel why even give this game the time of day? I mean seriously I think League of Legends is a terrible game but I don't spend my energy on Riot forums just Female Doging about what the game could and should be. I just don't like the game uninstalled it and moved on despite the amount of time & money I put into the game playing it.
But lets say its true, that folks in this thread feel the game isn't doing well. I ask you that are you basing this view solely on your own individual meta or are you physically traveling around... world wide. I can't speak for the world itself but I can tell you as someone whose job involves viewing social media trends that warmachine by far gets more buzz then any other tabletop game out there. The program I use can tally tweets, posts, threads, likes, and so on and several times I ran the numbers that show PP in general have a greater following with less churn then any other gaming system out there (churn being the word meaning the same people who post over and over again or bots to draw attention). Now one can say, look at twitch and see how many followers of companies like GW games have versus PP or look at the traffic of individual forum website and while those are great points, they often don't tell the whole story. As I will explain.
It is often viewed (and not just my opinion but of opinion of MANY other people) that this forum is knicknamed "whine-more horde forums" or "Female Dogfest forums" and threads like this (and others like it) easily indicate that the game is on its last hinges and that you will likely not find anyone playing it unless you attend a big warmachine style only event. It is this kind of negativity why the forums in general was nuked. I get it, its human nature to be negative and go on a forum or media and complain then it is to do something about it. We all do it from time to time, I do you do everyone does. I'm not saying this to be Mr. psychology, I say this as someone who use to be technical support and field technical support. For many people its easier to complain then it is to fix the issue (sometimes the issue caused by themselves).
A great example is the original poster stated in Florida there use to be so much warmachine going on that game stores had to build extra tables to keep up with it. I'm from Florida and its still that way. Infact, some folks had to switch game stores because others couldn't meet the demand. So while I am not sure where exactly in Florida you are talking about I can probably take a guess you must be discussing Palm Bay, Miami, or the game stores by UCF. In which again the numbers falling off is not because of warmachine dying but other greater factors. Palm Bay in general warmachine meta dwindled during mk2 when Pressganger stopped running events and no one truly picked up where he left off. Granted, he runs the big con in Florida so he gets a pass. But the store in general plays multiple games(warmachine still being one of them). Miami never had a meta and what little players they had all grew up. 2 of them became Lawyers, 1 active duty military, 1 got a job in another city and moved. In UCF you had the 3 guys who ran events, 2 of them got promoted at there respective jobs and the third (often referred to as the Godfather of the Florida Meta) had his second child and had no time for gaming anymore. No events running caused numbers to dwindle. Some folks became very negative about this. There own negativity became so bad it split the game store in two. One set of folks still play at the game stores near UCF but even for games like 40k, guild ball, Star wars, and AOS the numbers are still small. The other set of folks went to a new game store that opened up on the other side of town had a journeymen league and drew 16 new faces. So while sure, OP you can dispute if you like just know, I know Paul, Chad, Peter, Craig, Chris, and John and this information I am getting is straight from the game store owners in which I asked at various times. Lets also not discount that Daytona, Gainsville, Satellite Beach, and Jacksonville all have metas that sprouted since mk3 start and that Tampa has a HUGE meta.
Even if you excuse my own local area I just recently had to luxury of traveling around and attended a few cons. In 2 of the 3 conventions I went too, warmachine had better numbers. The one that didn't warmachine had the second best turn out being 5 people behind Age of Sigmar. If this game is losing players why is crowds still being drawn to conventions? Even ones I can't attend on the west coast I have several friends who moved out there tell me the numbers are bigger now then they were in the beginning of mark 3 and end of mark 2. And before you go "that just someone being a fanboy" some of these people are game store owners themselves and have no loyalty to 1 game. They enjoy them all. Heck, even vassal community is bigger then I have ever seen it in a long time.
Now that also doesn't mean PP isn't above criticism. The roll out of Mark 3 was absolutely terrible and I can agree with all of the folks who are disgruntled about Pressganger sponsorship going away. These huge slip ups and these kind of slip ups usually end gaming companies and kill them within a year time. PP still holding strong and if you folks pay attention to what they say on the feeds they are hiring people more now then ever before. If a game company is doing bad the last thing they want to do is hire someone permanently. It be more cost effective to hire a temp. The game is easier to get into now then before and thats mainly thanks to themes and the work they put into it. I get that people are miffed that there old MK2 collection doesn't transition well but keep in mind during MK2 the choices were so infinite while at the same time list builds so stale because so little models were truly useful in the grand scheme of things. Remember when Cygnar you had to put Haley2 into your build to be considered competitive? At least now you have multiple choices and some themes bridge the gap between higher tier casters and lower tier ones. More models are played now then before and if a person is smart and knows how to research or at least proxy when they test the cost to get into this is far cheaper now then it was before. Ofcourse you got exceptions but as a troll player my main list costed me 180 to build. Thats almost guild ball level of cheap and that is one of the cheaper games to get into.
I know I wrote a lot but good or bad attitudes does effect who will come out to play. A lot of factors can determined why some metas dwindle and I am pretty sure if I had a chance to study the metas who are losing players the factors are more likely due to real life or lack of a central organizer role then to the game itself. Maybe if this forum can actually try to be positive for a change at least be somewhat like how facebook or Discord is, you would notice a upward trend. But I am sure I will get a folks tell me I am wrong while involved in active metas that are too blind to see how good they have it.
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Post by jpgreat1 on May 22, 2018 19:47:24 GMT
If you ask me you should be including Jakes2 in the rework as well. But I think if Constance got a good theme she would be quite good if that theme makes all infantry morrowan (or at the least give us an attachment that makes units morrowan)
Trick shot on a stick would be gross even in the anti gun line meta. So I definitely agree with the folks who thinks he should just gain Ward Breaker. He should be able to choose his shots just like Caine3 can. I mean, Caine3 is not breaking the meta? Caine2 should be the caster who if he gets line of sight with any caster but the most armored he should get the victory. His spell list and abilities should reflect that. Swapping Fire for Effect for Magic Bullet I would think is a great swap but I personally do think a better spell that helps his personal damage output would be good. Maybe he has the phantom die, call it true shot. Cost 2 Range Self spell. This model gains an additional die on range attack and range attack damage rolls. Discard the lowest die each roll. So on 1 hand its not a straight damage buff but on the other hand can help with spikes.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Apr 22, 2018 5:42:56 GMT
I'm going to come in with some pretty damn bold statements here.
Number 1 - Snipe wasn't overpowered. The idea folks would lose models bottom of 1 or top of 1 is something that is just shunned in general not that its something hard for an opponent to stop. It was change more due to negative play experience then something being overpowered. Snipe on a stick also didn't turn Cygnar already long range weapons into sharpshooting monsters. At some point after turn 3, super long range becomes less and less useful. Snipe helped improve those short range multi-fired options like grenadier, Dynamo, charger, and Cyclone. Either way, Snipe on something like a hunter, defender, or even storm strider is heavily mitigated by anti shooting tech, particularly shield guard. I think folks who are in the camp of Snipe on a stick was too op first off wrong, but secondly overlooked anti shooting tech, and third really didn't play or test it at all and just simply complained about it.
With all that being said Number 2, while I didn't play test as thoroughly as I liked FFE is a HUGE buff to Caine0. The obvious with Siege benefiting from it is 1 take away. The other is hot swapping FFE between Adepts. POW 10 4D6 does hurt a lot of models in this game. Add Falk or Ayaina and its hurting high armored troops. Even if we simply overlook that, FFE does help tremendously with focus efficiency as stated in comments prior. And while it may be true that some focus heavy caster(s) like Haleys really don't need the extra help, at the same time; whats wrong with making them more efficient. The other thing that I wanted to test and think would be good buff for jack marshaling gun mages. Think about it, use hunter for example. With Haley2 it can have 2 shots and with the Gun Mage Captain's jack marshal ability it can benefit from Falk without help of Arlan who can use evasive or give it a focus, has good enough range to do True Aim (which is +2 damage to range if model stands still), and add in any extra's like Ayania Kiss or Gorman's Rust along with Fire for Effect and you have potentially POW 10 to 12 armor piercing shot with the first shot having a 33% chance to be 4d6 and 2nd one being 3d6 if you opted to give it focus from arlan. That is 13-15 damage average for an armor 20 model for the 4d6 alone. Not many things are surviving that kind of firepower.
And before someone says "cygnar bias" or "meta bias" I've been playing trolls and teaching folks who would listen on how to get around boogeymen like Nemo3 or Haley3. I've also have 3 separate metas I play into which 1 includes WTC caliber players.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Feb 26, 2018 0:51:38 GMT
Charistoph If you understand it then your responses don't seem to indicate so. You seem to be changing the criteria and then having me look at irrelevant data. Until you can provide actual data points there's nothing further to be said. Warmachine/hordes is a cheaper game than 40k. As far as the thread, I agree the rules about how to deep strike are very clear but its how the response to someone not following them is why I made the thread. I've seen plenty of folks mess up allocation rules in conventions but yet never seen a similar reaction to how this played out. As I said originally its very confusing and silly for what they did.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Feb 22, 2018 0:58:09 GMT
CharistophSo just so that we are clear. You don't understand the term anecdote. Clearly, you don't based on your response. I'm not trying to make fun of you because I know how this sounds but your response shows you don't understand the word. Maybe we have a language barrier problem? Remember, while what he was suggesting what to build was his opinion. The pricing of those models wasn't made up data or unreliable source but based upon the GW site itself. He also did one for many other factions. Keep in mind so did the other folks I listed which you can watch. Sure, these guys may get money for playing and showcasing videos but what they paid for these models doesn't change. Also, it is irrelevant to explain the price of 1 individual model or unit/squad when in compared to what it takes to play the game just like it is irrelevant if you know them or not or if I know you or not. It is also irrelevant on what you paid for it or if you can sell it or not. What is relevant is the fact that we compared what it takes to play tournament ready lists which Warmachine was cheaper. I choose 3 to 4 expensive Warmachine lists paired them up in which still was cheaper then the 40k one. It was also brought up how expensive Keith's lists was which it is pretty penny but after making sure math was correct it turns out it still wasn't as expensive as the LVO 40k list. I am told well, you got to look at whole collections which is fine because very rarely a person in this hobby will be happy with just 1 list but as it turns out 40k was still a lot more expensive. You tell me when someone does list tweaks which price largely depends on what you are tweaking but even then if you are changing 1 or 2 models you do the same for warmachine it ended up being cheaper. You tell me the hurdle is the first list but after that maintaining it is cheaper but then I refer you back to the other point that was made (maybe not by you but others) that you just don't collect 1 list and be content with that which concludes 40k is more expensive. You keep changing the criteria telling me just like how you added in this recent post your re-sale value, that you owned multiple factions, and how much money you paid. That is moving the goal post. I mean I can do the same and talk about single list events but I don't know how often those are relevent in your meta.
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Doooom
Feb 21, 2018 22:12:45 GMT
Post by jpgreat1 on Feb 21, 2018 22:12:45 GMT
Oh man I didn't know I can buy 1 model and participate in a 2000 point game! Thanks for letting me know. Seriously we aren't talking about gaming experience or fun value... we talking about monetary costs. Something that can be measured. Measured? Like price/quality ratio? Nobody is forcing anyone to play a certain system. That is a player choice and not really useful to discuss. 40k can be more expensive than WMH if corresponding manufacturers' minis are used, especially in some countries. It can also be completely opposite. Something we CAN discuss (because people might value different things) is the actual miniature range. IMO PP is over expensive. Not because the cost of playing the game (although that's getting pretty sick as well), but because of the measurable substance one is getting per spent euro. In US this might change a bit, as GW is probably more expensive there.. EU has basically permanent -10-15% off rrp, and I think cheaper rrp to boot (?). You make excellent points as far as the country difference, however; all of that in the other thread was taken into account and yet PP was cheaper. We've taken the context of what it takes to play the game (which should be the most important factor IMO as fun factor is subjective). As I said there seems to be this narrative that when it comes to PP things are just bad and only getting worse and worse. Thus this thread is evidence of that. Don't get me wrong I get that games come and go and that metas expand or decline. But when people start making flat-out false comparisons or don't take the bigger picture into account then ofcourse that will create some friction.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Feb 21, 2018 21:51:18 GMT
galrohir Its not a dance. I mean you said so yourself we can change certain things and it can become cheaper. And as I said prior this isn't taking into account discounts that you may get at a local store or online buyer from ebay. I'm also taken into account on one post the currency different between Pounds and Dollars. However, definitely even with your math we proved 40k is more expensive. Sure a guy can tweak his list which isn't that bad but a guy can change the type of list he is going for (you mention he is elite but i know you can go gunline, swarm/spam, alpha strike, etc) or go with a different faction. So when you start making those changes it becomes costly. If you then deny that and say look at it in this context like what has happened in this thread (to look at entire collections when tournament ready lists showed WMH cheaper, then look at lower cost games when that didn't work, then hurdle towards building your first list and meta change, etc) thats classic goal post moving.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Feb 21, 2018 21:28:51 GMT
CharistophDo you know what anecdotes mean? An anecdote is an account regarded as unreliable or hearsay. I mean the post by Commander Gamza was completely and totally opposite of an anecdote. He posted his idea of good starter lists in 40k and had the actual price tag in the background. I didn't comment on how efficient the list was or how good it would be, just that it was a starter list that wasn't even complete. He also within that same video talked about how he would complete the list which we can take the time to look up. He did multiple factions again similar price tag. If he would have shown a piece of paper of how he would build a list and say "hey at my local store I can find this model for this much and you can at your store" that would be an anecdote dude. Again I showed you numbers, you talk in anecdotes. So much so that the rest of your response is not worth responding to because clearly you didn't understand why I was using those particular youtubers & videos in the first place.
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Doooom
Feb 21, 2018 17:59:21 GMT
Post by jpgreat1 on Feb 21, 2018 17:59:21 GMT
Oh man I didn't know I can buy 1 model and participate in a 2000 point game! Thanks for letting me know.
Seriously we aren't talking about gaming experience or fun value... we talking about monetary costs. Something that can be measured.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Feb 21, 2018 17:46:56 GMT
galrohirThank you for checking your math but I would say you do want to have those codexes available which I was calculating when I did my math. That is something every GW store owner, youtuber, and player all state. So in turn 40k was more expensive. Thank you for proving that. Now go ahead if you want to go ahead and start tallying other lists then you start to see the bigger picture.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Feb 21, 2018 17:36:51 GMT
CharistophYour embellishing quite a bit. Going from 1 theme list to another theme list doesn't cost you as near as much money as building a list or heavily modifying your list in 40k. Even Tweaking said lists, WMH is still cheaper. So lets recap: I showed you the numbers across different themes, I showed you the numbers of several youtube folks who probably take this game a lot more serious then you(and people you play with)do, We ran complete comparisons on entire factions. Keep in mind, the only thing we didn't do is compare all-in-one boxes. These youtubers/bloggers who I keep referencing play multiple style lists are probably doing it for the same reason why any competitive player or person who enjoys the game does and that is to get most out of it. The monetary value of doing that though is significantly more expensive doing it cause its a GW game versus doing it PP. I gave you numbers, you gave me anecdotes. While I can sit here and reference my friends who do play 40k and AOS who also told me they're experience is completely different then yours when building lists I didn't harp on that too much for obvious reasons. Again I gave you numbers, you gave me anecdotes.
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