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Post by custardboy on Oct 24, 2018 23:50:56 GMT
Well he's a bit insane. Definitely way better for gators than pigs as he's just a free cloudbot who gives himself spiny every turn, then if he dies the caster just grabs the snapper. For pigs, he can bring a Wrastler, and that opens up another kettle of fish of damage fixing. Carver immediately comes to mind as 2 clouds should be able to cover his brick when anchored by terrain. And finally I can avoid taking battle boars! Weald secrets is great but nothing is really coming to mind as a great target. A lot of our stuff already has pathfinder and limited shots to benefit from hunter. Again gators win here, as croaks getting hunter or posse getting pathfinder is solid.
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Post by Azahul on Oct 25, 2018 0:03:25 GMT
I disagree. I think he breaks open pig list building massively. The Sturm and Drang Dracodile build I'd been testing basically just gained a cloud wall on top of everything else, and I think cheap access to a really solid armour breaking huge base is what he's been waiting for. Arkadius gets a lot of mileage out of some more Pathfinder and access to Rage, and I know in my list it's basically only costing me one of my Gorax and my Razor Boars (plus some shuffling of other utility). Funnily enough, the fact that he counts towards free points in WWFF really helps, since it means that Sturm and Drang can very easily get to 4 free points.
Not to say he isn't great with Gators, but removing reliance on Primal for pigs is immense and anything that stops your pigs from getting shot is fantastic.
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Post by gobber on Oct 25, 2018 0:25:20 GMT
Weald secrets also has some pretty significant synergy with Rorsh, Valks, and Boomies, and isn't trivial on the Meatthresher's gun either Boomhowlers? Are those guys sneaking into people's lists? I'm not sure I understand the draw, haha. No, but they're the only 10 model unit in WWFF without pathfinder and with guns (that don't already have hunter) so are great targets for weald secrets. They're not unusable with midas but definitely want CID attention.
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Post by chewie on Oct 25, 2018 0:29:24 GMT
Boomhowlers? Are those guys sneaking into people's lists? I'm not sure I understand the draw, haha. No, but they're the only 10 model unit in WWFF without pathfinder and with guns (that don't already have hunter) so are great targets for weald secrets. They're not unusable with midas but definitely want CID attention. Gotcha gotcha. I was wondering if there was some sweet boomie tech I was missing! Yeah, I would love for them to get some attention. I've always had a soft spot for that unit, haha.
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Post by custardboy on Oct 25, 2018 3:29:49 GMT
I do think there's a lot of cool (and good) stuff for pigs. I can see him being used with most casters. I just think he's better for gators initially due to lack of opportunity cost. Just take him. For pigs there is a tradeoff of some kind. I'm trying to remember if I still have that old wrastler lying around...
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Post by mydnight on Oct 25, 2018 3:50:34 GMT
Wow now all the main hordes factions get mini cloud wall. Trolls have the northkin shamans to boot for four real clouds (with no model having to stand inside the cloud). Who needs Kolgrimma Of course minimum cost is 9 points for him and a snapper. Swamp troll is pretty cool -- gives him stealth.
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Post by Azahul on Oct 25, 2018 3:54:08 GMT
What sort of opportunity cost do you mean? With Arkadius for certain I'm basically replacing a Gorax and my Razor Boars (so I do lose a little solo hunting capability there) and for the cost of 1 Primal, I gain 3-4 Rages. I do lose Arkadius's Feat on the Gorax animus bot, but I also get a heavy in return for late game. That may be specific to my list builds, I guess Arkadius lists that went for five heavies on Arkadius probably lose a heavy from there, but I never liked those lists anyway Plus he counts towards free points in WWFF, so he's not just easy to slot into lists... he actually gives me an additional solo with Sturm and Drang.
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Post by Azahul on Oct 25, 2018 3:56:35 GMT
Wow now all the main hordes factions get mini cloud wall. Trolls have the northkin shamans to boot for four real clouds (with no model having to stand inside the cloud). Who needs Kolgrimma Of course minimum cost is 9 points for him and a snapper. Swamp troll is pretty cool -- gives him stealth. Aren't we all running Mist Speakers in both lists already?
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Post by mydnight on Oct 25, 2018 4:19:52 GMT
Is he going to be in the next CId?
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Post by gobber on Oct 25, 2018 4:28:12 GMT
Also not seeing a huge opportunity cost, mostly opportunities.
Really looking forward to trying out Swampies with Helga; charging to slam something out of the way (potentially with an overtake or two) followed by a tongue drag and more melee could get real nasty.
Loving the extra defensive layer the clouds add to the sturmiredile. That thing is basically immune to single wound infantry (no charges+deathclouds), wins the alpha dance against most heavies/gargossals with polarity+floodwaters and is tough to one-round due to feat+shaking blind, nor does it die to guns (shield guards+deceleration). Add in the standard issue Orin for spell immunity and that thing's going to be real hard to deal with. Still doesn't have the greatest damage in the world until it gets primaled, but those defenses should really enable its ideal game of durdling around the midfield being unkillable and blinding things for a couple turns before going in hard.
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Post by Azahul on Oct 25, 2018 4:28:36 GMT
The developers have said from the start that Mire will not be in CID. He will become tournament legal with the spoiled rules in Warmachine Weekend. So, like, about a week and a half from now from memory?
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Post by custardboy on Oct 25, 2018 6:56:15 GMT
The big issue I see is the same as with running Wrong Eye for another beast- you can't take control of the beast again if the lesser dies. The other issue is every farrow caster has a mass battle group buff/ability, though we're pretty used to having to ignore them.
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Post by Azahul on Oct 25, 2018 8:15:28 GMT
If you're really worried you can run Wrongeye and Snapjaw too?
Still, I don't think it's that big of a problem. All of our existing lessers come with heavies who evaporate if you get them killed, which is usually even worse. And most of them are popular. Just keep them safe. It's not like Mire is natively easy to assassinate when Attuned Spirit allows him to contribute without even eating into his Transfers and he can very easily gain stealth.
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Post by custardboy on Oct 25, 2018 8:37:25 GMT
Oh he's not that squishy, for sure. It IS a major weakness to lose 20 points worth of stuff when a 4 point solo dies though.
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Post by apoc2148 on Oct 25, 2018 11:23:30 GMT
Signs and portents + hunter + croak raiders = lots of dead models.
I'm excited to toss him in a bunch of lists. Do we know if it will be released to the public at WMW? Or am I going to have to find a ninja?
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