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Post by Azahul on Nov 5, 2018 13:06:41 GMT
I've been noticing that same issue crop up with a few people I've seen trying to build Mire-based lists. You have to invests pretty heavily into a battlegroup he doesn't directly support to get the Fury to use the spells you're taking him. It's nice and convenient on the pig side, where the value from Rage or the synergy with the Dracodile automatically make him playable and already provide him with a Fury 4 beast to work with. Any of the attempts I've seen to build alternative Mire builds have him drop to half-efficiency after Turn 2.
Perhaps a cheaper alternative would be to run him near a healing objective, and/or bring Lynus and Edrea in a list?
Edit: Or Kwaak and Gub. Duh. Should have led with that instead of going straight to crazy town.
...although he has some funky anti-Warbeast synergy between Poison on his Spear, up to 5 attacks, and Lynus.
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Post by Gaston on Nov 5, 2018 15:47:49 GMT
...although he has some funky anti-Warbeast synergy between Poison on his Spear, up to 5 attacks, and Lynus. And Midas? Though I struggle to see him fit well into a Midas list.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Nov 5, 2018 19:29:29 GMT
Anyone looked into any dojo with Mire and Jaga? Croak Raiders with Weald Secrets should be nice. Adding a Spitter should be just fine, walk up and spit and then throw up clouds in front of the spitter. That should keep it safe when not reaping arm-bonus from Battle-Host... I've looked into it a bit. Weald secrets on the croak raiders is awesome and will really help them hit. Couple it with S&P and they should be able to hit almost everything on the table.
There is a module that you can run that maxes out 3 freebies (if you choose to go that route) it is this:
Sac Vault Max 16 point unit +void leech x2 (can be either GMP or raiders) Min Ambushers + void leech
The above equals 60 points exactly and would benefit from Mire tossing weald secrets on either unit a unit of raiders or the Vault itself. The rest of the list is the 3 free solos and 25 remaining points + WBPs.
Not sure about just the spitter on Mire, that will only net you 3 fury a turn. The issue that I keep running into when building a list with Mire iswhat beast(s) to put on him. The cheapest way to get him up to 4 fury each turn is to toss two bull snappers onto him. Next would be a snapper+boneswarm, boneswarm x2 (but this really needs the croc pot to do anything), then it is just a wrastler. Boneswarms are an easy way to proc stealth with attuned spirit. Wrastler is really nice for a free rage each turn, bull snappers are cheap and give him a bit extra armor.
Sadly if you want to shoot for 60 points of units in BC, you can't take Mire and anything bigger than a Blindwalker. And if you do, you only have your casters battlegroup points left to spend on beasts, which hurts Jaga, who from my understanding wants many a beast for her field marshal and battle host. That is unless Mire is elegible to be free in BC, because he isn't on Conflict Chamber
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Post by apoc2148 on Nov 5, 2018 19:46:42 GMT
Sadly if you want to shoot for 60 points of units in BC, you can't take Mire and anything bigger than a Blindwalker. And if you do, you only have your casters battlegroup points left to spend on beasts, which hurts Jaga, who from my understanding wants many a beast for her field marshal and battle host. That is unless Mire is elegible to be free in BC, because he isn't on Conflict Chamber Oops, yeah it would leave only 15 points + WBPs after the 60 are used. I can math.
I don't believe that he will be free in BC theme which is too bad. This may be another case where hitting the 3 freebie mark might be a trap.
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Post by creamster on Nov 5, 2018 22:14:58 GMT
Yes 3x solos in that list is a trap considering you are spending 3 points on void leeches.
I have been trying Rask, Wrong eye and Dahlia for free 2x solos for an all comers list and doesn't seem to lose out too much. Mire will replace wrong eye to allow hunter and extra clouds
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Post by Azahul on Nov 6, 2018 0:29:41 GMT
And Midas? Though I struggle to see him fit well into a Midas list. I was mathing out how well he'd do with Midas... but you're right. The list doesn't work. Maybe if you play Boneswarm spam and take a Wrastler for Rage? That said, you're playing him with Arkadius anyway and Mire vs a Crippling Grasped target isn't a bad spot to start. D-don't do the Lynus and Edrea thing though.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Nov 9, 2018 1:44:28 GMT
Swamp trolls seem not to be discussed at all here. As a troll player who thinks they are nifty, if a bit niche, is it just the unfamiliarity, out so you think they don't compare to your native beasts? The tongue lash can do some pretty startling things to an opponent, but it is hard to evaluate outside of table time.
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Post by Azahul on Nov 9, 2018 2:14:55 GMT
Well, from a Minions perspective I feel what Mire brings more than anything is access to Gator Warbeasts (specifically the Wrastler and Dracodile, although there's some Swamp Horror plus Meat Thresher jank that's quite fun) in pig lists. If he's not supplying powerful animii we have previously not had access to, or a huge base with the boxes of a Gargantuan, then he's a relatively niche model. Good spells, but he doesn't support his own battlegroup so there has to be some kind of external synergy if he's playing with a workhorse light.
Rask is probably the natural place for a Swamp Troll though, if you're going to run one. The clouds plus Veil of Mist synergise nicely together, and with the +6 strength swing the Swamp Troll could actually threaten a heavy. But of course the troll can't pull in heavies, so it's in a bit of a weird spot there. Probably a fun combo but it doesn't entirely change Minion list design the way Mire does bringing Gators across to pigs.
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Post by mydnight on Nov 9, 2018 2:41:36 GMT
Swamp trolls are still pretty niche, even in trolls. Primarily because they can't drag heavies, and you can always put some throw-away grunts to stop a drag. The animus is nice on some casters, but minions already have that animus, and it is considerably less important for Mire (bringing an 8 pt beast to protect your 4 pt solo seems circular). There are probably situations where a good drag wins you a game, but they are not consistent enough. This is why I'm really hopping for a heavy swamp troll!!
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Nov 9, 2018 13:16:31 GMT
Swamp trolls are still pretty niche, even in trolls. Primarily because they can't drag heavies, and you can always put some throw-away grunts to stop a drag. The animus is nice on some casters, but minions already have that animus, and it is considerably less important for Mire (bringing an 8 pt beast to protect your 4 pt solo seems circular). There are probably situations where a good drag wins you a game, but they are not consistent enough. This is why I'm really hopping for a heavy swamp troll!! I've been dreaming about a character or heavy swamp troll since I started playing the game, too! Thanks for the explanations, I had known it was not a new animus for you, but I wondered if the control aspect had been considered.
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Post by gobber on Nov 10, 2018 1:00:53 GMT
Back on the Mire/Midas list discussion...
Midas [WWFF] -Boneswarm -Boneswarm -Road Hog -Soul Slave (free) Longchops (free) Bone Shrine Mire+Wrastler 2x Crocpot 3x Valkyries Max Nyss Hunters
Two pots should be able to comfortably feed both midas and the boneswarm pair which hit at an effective ps20 with rage and calamity. Hoping the roadie can get some use out of the rage/sprint combo and get back behind the cloudwall/longchops trap line, which also hopefully provides some security to the resurrected beasts as well.
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Post by critfreeze on Nov 12, 2018 14:11:21 GMT
I think the following list could be good, clean fun:
Minion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Will Work for Food
[Barnabas 1] Bloody Barnabas [+28] - Blackhide Wrastler [16] - Ironback Spitter [14] - Ironback Spitter [14] - Gatorman Soul Slave [0(5)] Bog Trog Mist Speaker [4] Kwaak Slickspine & Gub, Croak Sorcerers [4] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4] Longchops [0(5)] Thrullg [0(5)] Underchief Mire [4] - Blackhide Wrastler [16] Wrong Eye [17] Farrow Valkyries [8] Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew [2]
Mire has a really broad kit with a lot of options, and I think this list lets us use everything on his card. His Wrastler can get him up to 4 Fury and lets him cast free Rages. The Ironback Spitters benefit from Weald Secrets, and you can get a nice cloud wall going between Mire, the Mist Speaker, and the Gobber Bellows Crew.
Meanwhile, I just like all the little synergies in the list. Kwaak and Gub make the Spitters into a nightmare, Barnabus and Longchops lock down parts of the board with Swamp Pit and Traps, the Valkyries and Wrong Eye protect Mire on the approach, and then as the lines close you've got 3 big melee beaters to spread around.
Lanyssa and the Thrullg are mainly in here because I just finished painting them, lol. But they could be any of our giant roster of great solos. Maybe Hutchuk could go in this list?
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