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Post by methios on Jul 23, 2018 20:22:12 GMT
Hey there,
Im getting onto the AC train. Just cause i love the models. So naturaly, i would look at sorcha3 as the caster to support em. How are you guys feeling about her tho? Her kit feels abit weird. Since the concealment is...soso, for mano. And she brings some battlegroup buffs that kinda tickle you to bring jacks. but she also cant realy fuel em.
Im feeling Irusk or Vlad are better options for AC?
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Sorcha 3
Jul 23, 2018 20:58:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 23, 2018 20:58:39 GMT
I’ll make a case to hijack the thread (just a little a bit) and ask everyone to focus on ‘what are you bringing with S3, and (how) are you making her work?’ Special interest ... 40+ vs 60 pta of MOW? What’s your jack package? To DemoCorp or not to DemoCorp?
Corollary - have you brought her to a champions game and how did it work for you?
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Post by sand20go on Jul 23, 2018 22:06:58 GMT
So I played her (Check out "a Poor mans Una) for a while before getting on the vlad2 train. May go back to her in another 10-12 games or so.
A) I wanted pathfinder jacks with her. There is just too much terrain on the table not to have that available. B) I really almost never could countercharge effectively. It is too easy to avoid and you really need to consider the opportunity cost of getting the jack closer (good) or taking some additional shots from the heavy they just sent in (bad). C) I hated her into Troll Spam and that turned me off for a while. Having a lot of your package shut down by the new Northkin hotness felt....bad D) Not sure about Beast. In several games he just killed stuff MOAR where a kodiak would have worked fine.
Now those all sound negative. I LOVED (I mean loved) Winter's Wrath as a control spell. It worked GREAT. Flank is fantastic when it works. You can really afford to take the alpha on your jacks cause you are hitting so far above your weight on the counter. Stoke for 1 focus is also fantastic. Feat works really good into certain things.
I think the biggest issue is that Vlad2 is simply amazing in AC. It isn't clear to me that she has matchups where she would be "better"....but I also think we haven't really yet figured out the right load out to make her sign.
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Post by Netherby on Jul 24, 2018 6:24:56 GMT
Probably look at something like:
[Sorscha 3] Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28] - Berserker [8] - Berserker [8] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Marauder [11] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [4] Greylord Forge Seer [4] Greylord Forge Seer [4] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Battle Mechaniks (max) [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5]
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Sorcha 3
Jul 24, 2018 7:52:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by goodk4t on Jul 24, 2018 7:52:10 GMT
dont you think, at least 1 unit of shocks would be good here? You have a solid iron flesh target, flank enabler and a good scenario anchor.
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Post by methios on Jul 24, 2018 8:38:42 GMT
I dont like the berserker chasis with flank. Sure cheap stuff is awesome with flank in the army. But having to berserk on your expensive man o wars is iffy. Think ill go with irusk
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Post by Netherby on Jul 24, 2018 9:26:52 GMT
Any unit of MoWs would be fine in the list also, she does stuff to help out all of them and they easily fit in 40 points. I don't think a unit is necessary though. The Drakhuns could also easily be swapped to min units of Demos...
Berserk isn't really a problem, you just face it so that it can't see any of your own models. In the cases where you can't manage that, well killing 1 of your own models is usually fine, but consider you DON'T get Flank against your own stuff. So you're not actually very likely to kill it even if you do have to hit it.
You would need 8's to kill an unbuffed Demo/Bomber, add Iron Flesh and that goes up to 10's. You need 6+ to even do a point of damage to a Drakhun/Tanker or ST in wall. You also have mechanics, so you can even repair them after if you want...
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Post by borderprince on Jul 24, 2018 9:30:11 GMT
I dont like the berserker chasis with flank. Sure cheap stuff is awesome with flank in the army. But having to berserk on your expensive man o wars is iffy. Happily many MoW models have 2" melee range, but Berserkers only have 1". So some careful positioning can deal with Berserk issues. If you ever played with Steelhead heavy cavalry in Mk2, they had a similar issue with combination of the Backswing rule and Flank from Halberdiers. It could be avoided via positioning.
Also worth remembering that:
(1) Even with Flank, Berserker chassis jacks often won't one round something without needing more focus than you want them to use thanks to Unstable. So not all jacks will trigger Berserk;
(2) A Berserk attack won't benefit from Flank, as the Flank rule only applies to enemy models. A basic Berserker attack (the most dangerous) shouldn't take out an undamaged MoW at ARM 16, even if it hits. Not much help if your MoW is already damaged, but it is something.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jul 24, 2018 12:50:41 GMT
If you're looking into Armored Corps, play one of the 7 or so warcasters who run that theme better than Sorscha3
If you're looking into playing Sorscha3, try Jaws
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Post by auraco on Jul 24, 2018 13:05:41 GMT
Sorscha3 in jaws just seems... bad.
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Sorcha 3
Jul 24, 2018 13:18:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by goodk4t on Jul 24, 2018 13:18:02 GMT
damn it... is the really that bad. Seems like she does not have a proper place to be.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Sorcha 3
Jul 24, 2018 13:40:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by chuggyg on Jul 24, 2018 13:40:36 GMT
Sorscha3 in jaws just seems... bad. Its actually... Wait for it... Real good
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Post by auraco on Jul 24, 2018 14:09:05 GMT
Can you at least give us a list?
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Sorcha 3
Jul 24, 2018 14:49:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 24, 2018 14:49:35 GMT
Sorscha3 in jaws just seems... bad. Its actually... Wait for it... Real good I don’t get it... at that point just play out of theme? She does nothing for warrior models or support staff, and other than the Seers they do nothing for her. With 40 points of MOW here you get 2 free models which are up to 12 points of actionable value, and you’re playing her first for Flank and second for Iron Flesh...
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Post by sand20go on Jul 24, 2018 15:54:51 GMT
Its actually... Wait for it... Real good I don’t get it... at that point just play out of theme? She does nothing for warrior models or support staff, and other than the Seers they do nothing for her. With 40 points of MOW here you get 2 free models which are up to 12 points of actionable value, and you’re playing her first for Flank and second for Iron Flesh... So I get the thinking of Jack heavy with her (ESPECIALLY jack heavy with 2 jacks marshalled by the Forges). But I am not sure this locks us into Jaws... Just as a thought experiment I build the following lists to help think it through......both are jack heavy but one is in AC and the other in Jaws...... List #1. [Sorscha 3] Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28] - Beast 09 [18] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [4] Greylord Forge Seer [4] Greylord Forge Seer [4] - Destroyer [14] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14] - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)] 4 jacks on the table. 3 advanced moves to help get the Kovnik, the demo Corp and something else up the board faster. You have speed with the kodiaks (and pathfinder). A Decent number of flank triggers on the the table - arguably we might want the Strike tanker rather than the Supressor since it has dual attack and could still get work done after a 7 inch charge. We will use IF either on her or on the DC and the cloud wall to try to get them there. With Shatter and Sylss+Winters Wrath we have a good chance of hitting REALLY hard. 2 Free models here. List #2 conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0xk_kV7s8fhFkZhFkWe37w8r8ycecgKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Sorscha 3] Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28] - Beast 09 [18] - Kodiak [13] - War Dog [3] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] - Rager [10] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] - Juggernaut [13] Kovnik Andrei Malakov [4] - Behemoth [25] Widowmaker Marksman [4] Yuri the Axe [0(6)] Kayazy Assassins (min) [9] - Kayazy Assassin Underboss [4] Here we have 5 jacks including the opportunity to put Big B under Stoke the fires and Red line (yeah!). IF is probably better used here to deliver the Assassin's into the line to help jam early. You COULD swap points around to find enough for a max unit - I decided to go min at this point to squeeze in some more solos since I didn't want to lose andy or the Forges early. I think BOTH work. I think AC works better mostly cause of the benefits of that Advanced move as opposed to "no ambush" But at least putting up 2 lists gives us something to think about.
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