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Post by skathrex on Jul 26, 2018 14:21:41 GMT
Isn't the advantage of S3 in that matchup the cloudwall?
especially compared to V2 it seems S3 would be better in that matchup
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Post by sand20go on Jul 26, 2018 14:23:41 GMT
Isn't the advantage of S3 in that matchup the cloudwall? especially compared to V2 it seems S3 would be better in that matchup My Haley2 player frequently brings Lynus and Edrea in at least 1 if not both of his lists.
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Post by skathrex on Jul 26, 2018 14:36:24 GMT
and they always hit the clouds? depending on terrain you can also layer them if necessary, but yes anti cloud tech is there
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Post by Netherby on Jul 26, 2018 14:38:17 GMT
You really cannot be banking on S3 feat doing anything. There are a lot of match ups where it is next to useless or requires you to go first in order to get anything out of it. Cygnar pretty much always have a list with L&E to counter clouds.
In any case I don't think you want to play AC into Haley2 regardless...
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 27, 2018 0:04:07 GMT
Doesn't the CA make them completely ignore the Hurricane though? Just the knockdown. Push immunity isn't slam immunity.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jul 27, 2018 5:51:43 GMT
Vlad2's Windblast is also great at making Sorscha3's feat a non-event...
Cheers, Dave
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Post by skathrex on Jul 27, 2018 8:26:22 GMT
The thing, or rather the beauty of her feat is...Its non essential. IF my opponent has to take the anti-cloudwall list, thats already a good thing, because many of those aren't simultaneously their arm-cracking lists.
Haley2 is a problem, but more so she is a controll caster which should be a problem for most of our AC lists. And frankly its not a list I would plan for except if I have someone in my local meta playing it.
In most my matches it provides a little speed bumb to get me up the board or the alpha which worked very well so far.
But my general point is, I think S3 is one of our more armor heavy AC casters because of the way she builds her list. That means taking things like Vlad2 doesn't help you any more in fighting these kind of lists.
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Post by MrHaystacks on Jul 27, 2018 8:46:57 GMT
From what I keep seeing we are struggling with getting bogged down in Trolls. It sounds like we need to have another look at the Berzerker to tech for this, Mat 8 Pow 16+3d6 berserk would chew through them. Beast also but he's over twice the cost and you can only have one.
In an unrelated question, Does the Grolar get flank with the auto-cannon when gun fighting?
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Sorcha 3
Jul 27, 2018 8:56:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by welshhoppo on Jul 27, 2018 8:56:33 GMT
From what I keep seeing we are struggling with getting bogged down in Trolls. It sounds like we need to have another look at the Berzerker to tech for this, Mat 8 Pow 16+3d6 berserk would chew through them. Beast also but he's over twice the cost and you can only have one. In an unrelated question, Does the Grolar get flank with the auto-cannon when gun fighting? Nope as he has gun fighter and dual attack. Meaning he is making a ranged attack whilst in melee. Black Ivan on the other hand would get flank on his bombard.
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Post by skathrex on Jul 27, 2018 13:14:59 GMT
From what I keep seeing we are struggling with getting bogged down in Trolls. It sounds like we need to have another look at the Berzerker to tech for this, Mat 8 Pow 16+3d6 berserk would chew through them. Beast also but he's over twice the cost and you can only have one. In an unrelated question, Does the Grolar get flank with the auto-cannon when gun fighting? I would disagree here. Hitting Def 16 is requires boosts with Zerkers, and they rarely get to berserk, either because of tough or sanguine bond. Kodiaks have a way better showing here. Vent Steam + Mat 9 gives them a lot more dmg. As mentioned, I think trolls are a fair matchup that just has to be practiced. It varies a bit with casters/themes, because if you can use Winters Wrath the matchup becomes a whole lot easier
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Post by Netherby on Jul 27, 2018 14:18:08 GMT
DEF 16 is the biggest issue for Berserkers, that and we have basically no way to negate that DEF. Can't make them Stationary, can't knock them down....
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Sorcha 3
Jul 27, 2018 14:18:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by jonnyboy on Jul 27, 2018 14:18:27 GMT
Are you all seeing trolls as a tough matchup for S3 or AC in general?
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Post by MrHaystacks on Jul 27, 2018 14:55:08 GMT
welshhoppo and skathrex, my thinking is to let them boost if needed, let them sanguine bond, then blow up finishing off the unit (Also why def 16? they are def12+2 for defensive line). Its an 8 to hit if you get the flank, and then let them sanguine bond as you buy attacks and do 3d6-2(8.5 dmg/hit assuming stone buffs and ignoring charge) assuming boost to hit each time you get 3 attacks at 3d6-2, 2 with an 84% chance of hitting 1 at 41% (Assumed to miss)) That's a good bet on dealing 17dmg to the unit. over 6 models that's 13 boxes left. Then you explode (If you don't then they have to try and kill it). another pow 14 at 2d6-2 across 6 models equals 5dmg per model finishes the unit. This Is a long shot, but this is a 8pt jack beating down a 21pt unit with only focus.
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Post by Netherby on Jul 27, 2018 16:20:07 GMT
They are 16 because the usual list is Mardrak1 who will be putting up Even Ground (+2 Def, no K/D). Since with Sanguine Bond you can afford to keep the whole unit alive and usually heal everyone to full with feat (3+D3 heal).
I wouldn't say Trolls are a tough match up in general, though they are always a *tough* match up... But they present some problems that you can't answer with your usual tools. Cold immune, no K/D models with DEF 16 that you cannot charge are problematic.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 27, 2018 16:20:46 GMT
I mean..... you could do that.
Or you bring Kodiaks and vent steam. It auto hits, and as its not an attack it can't be spread around with sanguine bond.
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