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Post by sand20go on Jun 26, 2018 0:25:40 GMT
The arc node burns out 1/3 of the time (Roll D6; damage on a 1 and a 2). Models base to base simply Scream for the other range tricks and set up the sprays nicely. Or Freeze them 3 shots = 1 sentry; 1+ reload. All will be pow 16. 2 will be boosted They have a POW 16 Weaponmaster Shoot (Assuming it shoots after Rust is applied, otherwise 14 Weaponmaster) from the Vindicator. The rocket specifically cannot shoot outside of Combat Action. You did read the card before you starting dooming, right? Even if it could, the Sentry attack happens before the Vulcan moves. Yes I did catch that. My bad. But as Juris explained, shooting isn't really what it is about. It is about removing key pieces of your army with Bulldoze, Redline, and Jackhammer _AND_ precision strike at effectively ARM 23. Essentially it will take 1-2 focus per Jack to neuter them. And while you CAN throw a huge mass of bodies in the way it isn't clear that isn't ALSO what Vulcan wants - spray down for days. While the arc node will be required....it isn't a must have. Depending on what you are using to try to strike back the Vulcan could be effective ARM 22 on the counter. I will let you know how it proceeds. I expect to see at LEAST two if not three Vulcans at a local SR Satuday.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 26, 2018 12:32:53 GMT
Let's not pretend that anyone actually plays sorscha1 lmbo I hear only scrubs alter the things they play to adapt to a changing meta. Sorscha3 brings a comparable freeze game and a much, much better toolbox besides that. Sorscha1 continues to have no place.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 26, 2018 12:36:24 GMT
I think with sorscha3 as the off-list you can still double dip into stationary while having a wildly different core game plan (jaws or armored corps). I haven't run into cold immune with S3 yet, so I'm not 100% on whether she really needs her stationary aoe to make a go of it, though I strongly suspect she does. I don't know if Mackay's guns put out enough damage outside her feat turn to chew through a huge pile of armor and boxes. I played S3 into it Northkin Double Champs and Madrak2. It was tough. The Champs absolutely hit hard enough and of course Madrak is fully capable of eating entire armies. Now that said, I think with better positioning I could have done it. I think that match up got me really thinking about Vlad2 with Bombers for the HoF swap - which went a LOT better. Still pretty brutal to chew through those boxes with the damage spread around. That match up got be really thinking that ultimately Vlad2 is going to be our strongest AK drop - or at least pretty darn good because of how he just tunes infantry armies up to 11. Yeah, I played the sorscha3 mirror match yesterday with my Jaws list against an Armored Corps and the game was pretty much in my control the entire time. I don't think she's a very good Armored Corps caster to begin with, and she's certainly outshined in that theme by various other warcasters. Defensively you have Zerkova, Irusk2, or OW2, offensively you have strakhov1 or vlad2. If you want something more balanced strakhov2 and even malakov2 probably do more for the theme than S3.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 26, 2018 13:10:55 GMT
I hear only scrubs alter the things they play to adapt to a changing meta. Sorscha3 brings a comparable freeze game and a much, much better toolbox besides that. Sorscha1 continues to have no place. The worth of a caster is not intrinsic. It depends on how well they support your gameplan. Sorscha3 is good, but she's a very different caster to S1. S3 is clearly geared towards MoWs, and in that regard I find I2's toolbox even better. My anti-Cryx/grymkin list has no MoWs in it and no decent IF targets, so I'm better off using S1's superior control and assassination game. Also, let's be honest, freezing a two-foot bubble is clearly better than freezing a four-inch bubble. Saying the Freeze games are comparable is barmy.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 26, 2018 16:32:28 GMT
Sorscha3 brings a comparable freeze game and a much, much better toolbox besides that. Sorscha1 continues to have no place. The worth of a caster is not intrinsic. It depends on how well they support your gameplan. Sorscha3 is good, but she's a very different caster to S1. S3 is clearly geared towards MoWs, and in that regard I find I2's toolbox even better. My anti-Cryx/grymkin list has no MoWs in it and no decent IF targets, so I'm better off using S1's superior control and assassination game. Also, let's be honest, freezing a two-foot bubble is clearly better than freezing a four-inch bubble. Saying the Freeze games are comparable is barmy. I need to play I2 with them to really start getting a feel for it but I also really need to get the second strike tanker for that.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 26, 2018 17:02:41 GMT
The worth of a caster is not intrinsic. It depends on how well they support your gameplan. Sorscha3 is good, but she's a very different caster to S1. S3 is clearly geared towards MoWs, and in that regard I find I2's toolbox even better. My anti-Cryx/grymkin list has no MoWs in it and no decent IF targets, so I'm better off using S1's superior control and assassination game. Also, let's be honest, freezing a two-foot bubble is clearly better than freezing a four-inch bubble. Saying the Freeze games are comparable is barmy. I need to play I2 with them to really start getting a feel for it but I also really need to get the second strike tanker for that. Honestly, it's great. I'm not a huge fan of hot-swapping, but a +4d6 AP attack on to a huge base is incredible. I'm still a little undecided as to whether I prefer actual ARM buffs or the tough bubble, but so far FFE and the feat are clinching it.
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Post by mcdermott on Jun 26, 2018 17:27:29 GMT
I hear only scrubs alter the things they play to adapt to a changing meta. Sorscha3 brings a comparable freeze game and a much, much better toolbox besides that. Sorscha1 continues to have no place. Sorscha3's freeze game is nowhere near comparable. Nor is her speed.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 26, 2018 18:56:42 GMT
I need to play I2 with them to really start getting a feel for it but I also really need to get the second strike tanker for that. Honestly, it's great. I'm not a huge fan of hot-swapping, but a +4d6 AP attack on to a huge base is incredible. I'm still a little undecided as to whether I prefer actual ARM buffs or the tough bubble, but so far FFE and the feat are clinching it. While it isn't as good (compared to S3) into "jack/beast" skewed lists I can absolutely see I2's benefits in a lot of the current fad of Primal Terrors or Double Champ spam. Consider (Randomly pickining ARM 18). FFE on a Supression tanker spray is doing on average 6.5 points of damage. That is some GOOD ping damage if you can catch 2-3 champions (and you should) under that and can pretty easily spike to force a tough roll on a chosen. Then add in Battle lust to actually dent stuff with the shocks. Plus SP 2 Champions seems like "winning"
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 26, 2018 19:55:06 GMT
Eh, too many variables to say what's better. I2 buffs the MoW more effectively, S2 needs jacks for the heavy lifting. Both have controlling feats. You could throw Kozlov into the mix here too. Demo Corps that threat 13" and hit like Juggernauts are pretty frigging terrifying. I've played that into jackspam, and it's hell for them when almost any model in your army can flatten their stuff. But you miss out on control, and lose hard into charge deniers.
I'm not sure I've actually faced Champs in mk3? Looks like their main thing is how high they can get their DEF. ARM18 HP5 is pretty flimsy, even with Sanguine, but when it's DEF 16 that's pretty brutal.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 26, 2018 20:00:17 GMT
Eh, too many variables to say what's better. I2 buffs the MoW more effectively, S2 needs jacks for the heavy lifting. Both have controlling feats. You could throw Kozlov into the mix here too. Demo Corps that threat 13" and hit like Juggernauts are pretty frigging terrifying. I've played that into jackspam, and it's hell for them when almost any model in your army can flatten their stuff. But you miss out on control, and lose hard into charge deniers. I'm not sure I've actually faced Champs in mk3? Looks like their main thing is how high they can get their DEF. ARM18 HP5 is pretty flimsy, even with Sanguine, but when it's DEF 16 that's pretty brutal. In my games so far they are used as Madrak 2 delivery system as well as boxes to chew your clock. FFE spray would solve both problems.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 27, 2018 7:03:16 GMT
Why deliver Madrak2? Since his feat doesn't affect himself it seems like he'd play like B1; he can kill a couple of things he can reach, and then be left flapping in the breeze.
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Post by Cryptix on Jun 29, 2018 3:06:16 GMT
Should I change the thread' s title to be less clickbaity? Id probably make it "Know Your Enemy: Crucible Guard Counters"
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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 29, 2018 3:32:28 GMT
Should I change the thread' s title to be less clickbaity? Id probably make it "Know Your Enemy: Crucible Guard Counters" Less click baity/doom/gloom sounds good.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 29, 2018 12:54:34 GMT
Locke is cute, who cares. To be fair I'm not seeing what's so gunline-y about them. They can do -2 arm on any target, cool, but their weapons pay the pow or range tax for it. All I see are pow 14-15 unboosted guns and massed pow 13 CRAs at long range. That will do something with a -2 arm debuff, but hardly something unseen before. It's like AK bombardier gunline with S&P or rocketless WGK, are you scared of that? Am I missing something here? What particular models supposed to be exceptionally good at shooting? Run+jackhammer is a bad play in terms of focus efficiency. It's only an assassination gotcha. Don't overvalue debuffs from support models. Khador can do -4 arm, -2 def with mercs, but that obviously isn't how we play, don't we? I like their big dudes, but since we got AK fix I can't be envious about them. Boy....you sure are in for a big suprise the first time you play against it. Anyone here who is dismissing Locke & Vulcan as anything less than a serious power play is in for a rude awakening. Care to elaborate? I'm pretty sure I won't be playing against them any time soon if at all.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 29, 2018 13:02:50 GMT
Boy....you sure are in for a big suprise the first time you play against it. Anyone here who is dismissing Locke & Vulcan as anything less than a serious power play is in for a rude awakening. Care to elaborate? I'm pretty sure I won't be playing against them any time soon if at all. Redline for +2 Strength and Spd, Vulcan uses it's rusty aura and runs 16", she then casts Jackhammer for P&S 23 attacks against your warjacks
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