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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 25, 2018 11:37:08 GMT
Locke is cute, who cares.
To be fair I'm not seeing what's so gunline-y about them. They can do -2 arm on any target, cool, but their weapons pay the pow or range tax for it.
All I see are pow 14-15 unboosted guns and massed pow 13 CRAs at long range. That will do something with a -2 arm debuff, but hardly something unseen before. It's like AK bombardier gunline with S&P or rocketless WGK, are you scared of that?
Am I missing something here? What particular models supposed to be exceptionally good at shooting?
Run+jackhammer is a bad play in terms of focus efficiency. It's only an assassination gotcha.
Don't overvalue debuffs from support models. Khador can do -4 arm, -2 def with mercs, but that obviously isn't how we play, don't we?
I like their big dudes, but since we got AK fix I can't be envious about them.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 25, 2018 13:15:45 GMT
So I was focused on the shooting and didn't even realize the "real" trick Run the Vulcan 16 inches with bulldoze wherever you want to and then use Jackhammer.
Hmmm.... Jackhammer is only like 6 inch range right? Not sure they want their casters too far forwards. You can arc it, but as far as I can tell their arc nodes take damage to the node systems when they arc, so I think they can only arc two spells before they burn out? So that's two swings? I can't be bothered to check the details right now, so I could be wrong.
Also you can stop bulldoze by putting two models one behind the other, so the front one can't be pushed.T
The arc node burns out 1/3 of the time (Roll D6; damage on a 1 and a 2). Models base to base simply Scream for the other range tricks and set up the sprays nicely. Or Freeze them 3 shots = 1 sentry; 1+ reload. All will be pow 16. 2 will be boosted They have a POW 16 Weaponmaster Shoot (Assuming it shoots after Rust is applied, otherwise 14 Weaponmaster) from the Vindicator. |
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 25, 2018 13:46:24 GMT
Ah, OK, I thought I must have missed something. Still, let's wait and see what happens. If it does turn out to be too much, PP will probably nerf it eventually (possibly even if it isn't even all that OP; HashtagNeverForgetKarchevMadDogs). And hey, the guys plopping down many hundreds of dollars for a whole new faction deserve to enjoy themselves for a bit before people figure them out and things balance out right?
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Post by sand20go on Jun 25, 2018 14:13:33 GMT
Ah, OK, I thought I must have missed something. Still, let's wait and see what happens. If it does turn out to be too much, PP will probably nerf it eventually (possibly even if it isn't even all that OP; HashtagNeverForgetKarchevMadDogs). And hey, the guys plopping down many hundreds of dollars for a whole new faction deserve to enjoy themselves for a bit before people figure them out and things balance out right? True that - but you will absolutely need to keep your caster in a safe distance (and/or use jacks/bricks to stop the bulldoze BS). And I definitely do not believe that Khador can afford to get into a gun battle with the faction - Rust is simply too easy to apply and the faction has way too many "focus" extenders (Locke with free upkeeps for battle group; Lucas with the whole Juicer mechanic that isn't that critical in 7 round game; Syvestro with a free cast of a spell) so it is pretty guaranteed that all the pow on those shots WILL be boosted and likely at the full 14 inch range. |
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Post by skathrex on Jun 25, 2018 14:42:01 GMT
apparently you've, again, walked into range of literally everything like Little Red Riding Hood into a forest filled with snakes. Did Red Riding Hood have problems with snakes? I missed that bit of the story.
he Australian, their version probably has Snakes in it, and probably Spiders too  |
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Post by skathrex on Jun 25, 2018 14:48:48 GMT
Ah, OK, I thought I must have missed something. Still, let's wait and see what happens. If it does turn out to be too much, PP will probably nerf it eventually (possibly even if it isn't even all that OP; HashtagNeverForgetKarchevMadDogs). And hey, the guys plopping down many hundreds of dollars for a whole new faction deserve to enjoy themselves for a bit before people figure them out and things balance out right? True that - but you will absolutely need to keep your caster in a safe distance (and/or use jacks/bricks to stop the bulldoze BS). And I definitely do not believe that Khador can afford to get into a gun battle with the faction - Rust is simply too easy to apply and the faction has way too many "focus" extenders (Locke with free upkeeps for battle group; Lucas with the whole Juicer mechanic that isn't that critical in 7 round game; Syvestro with a free cast of a spell) so it is pretty guaranteed that all the pow on those shots WILL be boosted and likely at the full 14 inch range. Not in a Gunfight? Who the Firetruck cares about Rust in a gunfight? Our guns sit on dudes, either small dudes or burly dudes, but still dudes. And Vlad1 or OW2 are going to win that fight. Maybe you need to bring a spriggan, but their jacks are native arm 18. Thats like our jacks with rust on them! and they also just shoot pow 14. Against Irusk2 WGK they just die massively in a gun fight. Now Rocketman are a different thing. We will see what they can do but I suspect they are really gonna hate OW2 |
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Post by bearstronaut on Jun 25, 2018 15:01:26 GMT
If this bothers you then you really shouldn't look too hard at what Cygnar or Ret can do at ranged...
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Post by tapecrawler on Jun 25, 2018 15:09:15 GMT
Maybe a silly question but what about ambushing Hutchuck and rusting their constructs? It seems like that could possibly be pivotal if you plan it from the outset.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 25, 2018 15:51:02 GMT
True that - but you will absolutely need to keep your caster in a safe distance (and/or use jacks/bricks to stop the bulldoze BS). And I definitely do not believe that Khador can afford to get into a gun battle with the faction - Rust is simply too easy to apply and the faction has way too many "focus" extenders (Locke with free upkeeps for battle group; Lucas with the whole Juicer mechanic that isn't that critical in 7 round game; Syvestro with a free cast of a spell) so it is pretty guaranteed that all the pow on those shots WILL be boosted and likely at the full 14 inch range. Not in a Gunfight? Who the Firetruck cares about Rust in a gunfight? Our guns sit on dudes, either small dudes or burly dudes, but still dudes. And Vlad1 or OW2 are going to win that fight. Maybe you need to bring a spriggan, but their jacks are native arm 18. Thats like our jacks with rust on them! and they also just shoot pow 14. Against Irusk2 WGK they just die massively in a gun fight. Now Rocketman are a different thing. We will see what they can do but I suspect they are really gonna hate OW2 ONLY if you can block the lane between the Vulcan and OW2 (18 inch windstorm; 18 inch threat). Now walls and buildings so that is ALL good. But they will absolutely have more than enough to take out "dudes" (aka WGI) and probably more than enough to clear SW dudes (aka Fangs). Unclear that they have enough "umph" to take out AK - which shuts down bulldoze. Main issue there would SEEM Dragon Cannon (-2 ARM) and then various buffs and debuffs to further lower arm, increase pow. Played into Slyvestro last night. Did PRETTY good work against the Shocks on feat turn (Signs and Portents) but pretty easy to counter coming back at them. More irritating were the rocketmen who get up to DEF 18 and immune to blast. Great tarpit unit - and especially Decent with the blast grenades into OUR usual tarpitters. I don't remember them getting much work (at all) in the CID - I think they are going frustrate a lot of players. Used S3 to effect here, freezing them |
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Post by sand20go on Jun 25, 2018 15:56:57 GMT
If this bothers you then you really shouldn't look too hard at what Cygnar or Ret can do at ranged... OH trust me. I am irritated by that as well. Ranged Warmachine makes for BORING warmachine. It is the nature of I go/You go because the turns you are closing are just ridiculously passive. Yes. SOME positioning play (but live scenarios with scoring elements in the back make for only so so on the positioning game). Meanwhile on YOUR turn really your roll is bookkeeper, marking off damage. I would argue (perhaps in a different thread) that my opinions are NOT uncommon - as nearly every other "I go/You go" game that provides for ranged attacks attempts to build in a mechanism (the save rolls in 40K, the response fire move in infinity - think that is the name of the rule) to engage the "off player" in a range battle. WM/H, in contrast, confines the response GENERALLY to rolling a die for a tough roll or, in a few cases, having return fire mechanics. |
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474 
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 25, 2018 16:47:23 GMT
The real threat for Khador is going to be gearhart with 3 units of rocketmen with UA and 3x WAs. Full units of def 16, blast immune, with 9 pow 14 (16 under feat) jack hunter guns mixed in. And that's without the dragon's breath rockets and the vindicators...
Gearhart
-Vindicator
-Vindicator
Rocketmen
-Ua
-WAx3
Rocketmen
-Ua
-WAx3
Rocketmen
-Ua
-WAx3
Dragon's Breath Rocket
Dragon's Breath Rocket
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Post by bearstronaut on Jun 25, 2018 17:02:46 GMT
Zerkova1 and OW2 can handily deal with that list imo. -5 RNG on the Rocketmen and DBRs is incredibly mean.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 25, 2018 17:03:22 GMT
The real threat for Khador is going to be gearhart with 3 units of rocketmen with UA and 3x WAs. Full units of def 16, blast immune, with 9 pow 14 (16 under feat) jack hunter guns mixed in. And that's without the dragon's breath rockets and the vindicators... Gearhart -Vindicator -Vindicator Rocketmen -Ua -WAx3 Rocketmen -Ua -WAx3 Rocketmen -Ua -WAx3 Dragon's Breath Rocket Dragon's Breath Rocket Hmmmm......to me while "strong" _THAT_ scary...... We have a number of "control single wound" options - from Sorscha3's clouds to the COnquests covering fire to the supressor tankers walls. SP 9 can get around a LOT of that but it isn't guaranteed. The anti-blast order goes away with the officer. SHoot him!! And it takes away dodge once you do. But I completely agree that the Gearhart build screams - KILL JACKS and requires a seriously smart anti-dudes build to deal with the rat 6; Pow 10; Swifthunter skimishers. |
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Post by sand20go on Jun 25, 2018 17:07:21 GMT
Zerkova1 and OW2 can handily deal with that list imo. -5 RNG on the Rocketmen and DBRs is incredibly mean. +1. I think the big issue is figuring out the right things to bring with OW2 so that she can survive the threat that Vulcan+Locke (or a lowly toro) creates for her. |
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 25, 2018 17:07:33 GMT
That's not exactly a threatening list. They top out at P14, and those jack hunters are RNG4. If you have any sort of accuracy boost that arm11 is going to tell.
I'd cheerfully play either of my current lists into it. AC is probably too tough to crack, and Sorscha1 sitting at def20 to their attacks and nullifying their defence would be pretty simple too
Zerkova and OW2 for anti shooting, any vlad for accuracy boosting... Plenty of options there
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