|
Post by sand20go on May 4, 2018 6:33:21 GMT
So I love man of wars. Great model and I have a LOT painted. When the new theme hit I was stoked and when they were selling models and kingdom con....well suffice it to say lots of Mac and Cheese this month to make the household budget balance
Tonight I got my first S3 run in. Had played with Strakov2 who is very strong with them but wanted to take S for a ride since I didn't play her in the cid
Tonights Load out was
S3 Kodiaks x2 Beast
Forgeseer Shocktroopers +UA Drakhuns x2 Kovnik Atanas Suppression Tankers x2 Min Mechanics x 2
Game one was into Juris and his Haley 2 list. Spread the net. A big challenge (but I also probably wasn't aggressive enough). Ultimately lost on scenario when he tk'ed out foiur models contesting and it was all she wrote. Simple put she is just so good into a low model count army.
Game 2 though - well that was fun. Rask with a droc (first time against it) and then Wrong eye, Daliah and snake and then some other stuff. Again Spread the Net so we can stress test.
Won Roll. AM up the Shocks, the Kovnik, a Drakhun and then Sorscha herself. IF on the shocks; SF on the three jack and then a 4 inch waddle. SF get DP and run their 10 (14 total off the line). Jacks position. Drakhun that AM gets WAY up the board but out of charge range of the Drak. Kodiaks run 14 and get positioned. Beast hangs back to Shield guard any stray stuff that might come S's way and to counter attack.
He does some things. A few shots here and there. Paralysis comes into play along with blind. But nothing really off the table that matters.
Turn 2 I go ahead and start leveraging Countercharge and the Husk's Hyper aggressive. First Stoke on 1 kodiak and Beast. Man of War's DP again and are almost at the his Square zone. A hit on a husk who moves up only to get countercharged. Bad mistake as now the drakhun is contesting the square zone. A similar thing happens with the kodiak and another husk. Tanker 1 gets on my flag. Tanker 2 moves toward his to kill solos that might try to score. I miss pow 16 from the CID ;-)
Bottom 2 he sends in snake on Drakhun but after dismounts finds the model out of range. Drak goes in on Shocks and kills some. Should have probably gone after the Kodiak with fury. Kills 2 and puts some good damage on Kodiak. Kodiak then disrupted by Thulg. Blind on Tanker. Maybe some other things.
Top of three live the dream. Beast and Kodiak #2 get 2 each. Shocks move over and apply flank to Drak and to Snapjaw. Get some spikes on Drak. Kodiak gets healed up by meks. Forgeseer is champ and empowers kodiak. Kodiak moves over and with flank proceeds to 2 shot snapjaw at effective Mat 9. Take THAT starcrossed. Sorscha activates and applies Stoke to Beast and Kodak #2. Kodiak #2 charges snake and with MAT 9 flank (the drakhun, though paralzed, was in melee range....thanks new rule, proceeds to kill it with just initials. Beast charges Drak and crushes it, leaving him on like 5. Drakhun charges and kills Drak.
At that point it was essentially over. In this game it was clear and apparent just how strong Flank Man of War is. You use the Shocks to absorb the alpha. ARM 23, 8 boxes, no knock down TOugh is a THING against a melee oriented army. It is going to take REAL effort to whip them off the table. If you have 1 or 2 left and still are OK on scenario you can then threaten 10 or 11 with your jacks on the counter. They are going to hit Uber hard - especially the more initials that you have. I love kodiaks simply because she doesn't have Boundless charge and you need pathfinder so often. Ragers would have provided volume but could have easily been done in by the drak's animus (it wasn't cast....probably should have been but I think that only delays things a turn as the kodiak would have done a decent amount of damage on the drak....and Beast would have prepared to get in there as well.
What I am not convinced of is 2 drakhuns. They are great but 9 points is a steep price - especially considering that that could free up points for ragman (tuning up the shocks) and a unit of eliminators (more advanced move if I recall the wording of the theme and good sacrificial lambs for scenario presence. And of course scary is the idea of putting IF on eliminators and then letting them ignore blast damage. Take THAT Haley - especially with the new electroleap rules. I mean they still CAN be killed - it is just a lot harder and they can last longer in doing their ONE job.
All in all a great first night test drive. Lets keep stoking those fires ;-)
|
|
|
Post by borderprince on May 4, 2018 11:16:48 GMT
Thanks for the reports
I suspect it depends on how many jacks need flank against different targets on a single turn. If your opponent is running fairly low numbers of jacks/beasts, then Shocks + 1 Drakhun can probably get where you need them to be. But if you come up against a list with 5 or more heavies, that might not work - they can probably afford to lose a couple of heavies and then strike back to take out your jacks or flanking models. That's a problem when you're relying on flank for most of your serious ARM cracking (other than Beast).
That said, adding in Ragman does mean that everything in the list can hit fairly hard even without flank, so probably one for experimentation and see what suits you.
Purely a suggestion, but dropping a Drakhun and a min mech unit could get you Ragman and a min unit of Demo Corps. Might be interesting for increasing the boxes on the field. But Eliminators are also great.
|
|
|
Post by smoothcriminal on May 4, 2018 11:58:14 GMT
I think Drakhuns should be min demos. Points work out better and S3 has more synergy with them. She also already has her own countercharge.
Does flank really work when a dude is stationary? I thought they had no melee range.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on May 4, 2018 14:54:31 GMT
I think Drakhuns should be min demos. Points work out better and S3 has more synergy with them. She also already has her own countercharge. Does flank really work when a dude is stationary? I thought they had no melee range. Lets go to the rule book (I thought you were right but my opponent gave it to me....I had the supression tanker ready for that job as well though it would have meet the scenario lead was shrunk by one for at least 1 turn....) Stationary does NOT have a melee range (pg. 61) HOWEVER Paralysis is not Stationary (Skarath's card). Indeed, we misplayed that because Paralysis not not really paralysis - lets call it having a bad morning - you can not run, charge, or do a lot of OTHER things. You are Def 5 (it is funny how as Khador these def buffs are like "Whatever"). But you can move and make attacks all day. So we are good. Similar issues with Blind. Can't do a lot of things but can proc flank....
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on May 4, 2018 14:58:05 GMT
I think Drakhuns should be min demos. Points work out better and S3 has more synergy with them. She also already has her own countercharge. Does flank really work when a dude is stationary? I thought they had no melee range. It is an interesting choice. But I think that is even WORSE into a gun line in a scenario like Spread the net. Or at least I need to think/test it to see. I am getting pretty close to buying the chariot (I want Victor though in the worst way). Armor Korp desperately needs the ability to push back into contesting areas in sceanrios like that - or you almost have to have a "fast" list (or a huge dudes one) to push back there and try to hold on.
|
|
|
Post by Netherby on May 5, 2018 5:40:30 GMT
I love Drakhuns, but they are sadly over costed in comparison to other options.
|
|
chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
|
Post by chuggyg on May 5, 2018 13:58:19 GMT
I'd say you pay too much for them unsupported, but they make really, really good use out of a variety of buffs. We have various ways to give them +2 or +3 armor which puts them over the top.
|
|
|
Post by Netherby on May 5, 2018 16:24:23 GMT
+3?! Khador doesn't get a +3 buff???
I mean you could stack with Strakkov2 feat, but thats about it...
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on May 13, 2018 3:50:55 GMT
Played her for fun in a slow growth league we have going on. Mostly to get practice. Full Shock boat, Beast 09, Kodiak, Altanas and a Strike Tanker
I am seriously in love. You have NO IDEA how good it is to put retailiatory strike on the shocks. Talk about attrition and it mitigate a huge problem with Man of Wars - the low attack volume.
But the highlight of the day was using her Winter Wrath spell to seriously control a unit of sentinals. Now some of that was taking advantage of an unexperienced player but when a weapon master unit can't issue orders cause their leader is frozen it is a SAD weaponmaster unit. Demonstrated to me the serious game she can have to "cheat the trade" into crap like Warders and Champions. It isn't as good as freezing grip but it still good and viable and a live 16 inch threat.
I am increasingly thinking that the final piece of her puzzle to add in something like Eyrss. Disruption and stationary is a brutal combo. Combined with Supression tankers and then a mix of democorps and shocks you really create a challenge for your opponent -- what DO they send in to try to deal with the Man of Wars and how do they not get counter charged, stationary-disrupted. I LIKE asking questions.....
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on May 13, 2018 15:08:38 GMT
ONe random observation about her (and thus my interest in Eyryss......
She often is sitting on excess focus. At DEF 12/14 you really DON"T want her up. Turn 1 you are definitely stoking the fires but after that, it is fairly situational and sometimes you won't (can't) cast it.....
Yet ARM 18 is a thing. You Might risk the 1 in 200 shot of trip 6's against some random shot but usually you are safe being naked until you commit her.
So 1 to upkeep IF, 2 to Wind rush (for the extra mobility). Thus the value someturns of throwing out a winter's wrath - especially if you can use it to control a Jack (or buff shatter). And while it would be better to boost (cause Focus 6) you have a drift chance as well. Then you disrupt to really screw them so you can focus on "other things".
Second Random observation - Lets say you are at the end game (a table I was watching last night was at that stage). Give her Retal Strike. Go in on a jack. Freeze/smite it. Disrupt it. Now yell at the caster, come at me bro - which he can not because of retal strike....or at least risks her MAT 7
|
|
|
Post by nuhjuhkuh on May 13, 2018 20:41:48 GMT
I am seriously in love. You have NO IDEA how good it is to put retailiatory strike on the shocks. Talk about attrition and it mitigate a huge problem with Man of Wars - the low attack volume. See, I've been wondering about Butcher 1 and double Shocktroopers - between his own spell and Atanas, two units could have Retaliatory Strike. Seems legit to me?!
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on May 13, 2018 22:57:30 GMT
Double Shocks and bombers with B1 could be a REAL thing. I think you take double Spriggans to help with stealth and then go to town.
|
|
|
Post by nuhjuhkuh on May 14, 2018 5:20:07 GMT
Double Shocks and bombers with B1 could be a REAL thing. I think you take double Spriggans to help with stealth and then go to town. See, I think Ruin is essential for the anti-magic and baked-in Pathfinder... but maybe one Spriggan to light up a stealthed heavy a turn for Strike Tankers to grievously wound?!
|
|
|
Post by borderprince on May 14, 2018 7:35:23 GMT
See, I've been wondering about Butcher 1 and double Shocktroopers - between his own spell and Atanas, two units could have Retaliatory Strike. Seems legit to me?! Sadly the Vengeance spell on Butcher1 is only Friendly Faction Model, not Model/Unit, so no giving retaliatory strike to two units. Might be quite nasty on a Drakhun though - hard to kill and hits very hard back.
|
|
chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
|
Post by chuggyg on May 14, 2018 16:59:56 GMT
+3?! Khador doesn't get a +3 buff??? I mean you could stack with Strakkov2 feat, but thats about it... Vlad2 feat as well! (also makes them def 13 which is pretty rad)
|
|