|
Post by cageyj0nny on May 15, 2018 13:05:27 GMT
+3?! Khador doesn't get a +3 buff??? I mean you could stack with Strakkov2 feat, but thats about it... Vlad2 feat as well! (also makes them def 13 which is pretty rad) See I think demos under vlad2's feat will be awesome. Def15, no knockdown, arm19, retaliatory strike, hand of fate with a sanguine bond kicker.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on May 20, 2018 16:25:25 GMT
Another game yesterday into a newish player so mostly for practice in understanding combos. In this case he had two beasts too close to one another.
Prior turn I had held Dragos back a bit to ensure he lived. He sent in two legion beasts to kill all but Dragos. Vengeance triggered to get him closer. Sorscha moved up, shot her cannon to free up lanes and then cast winter's wrath at Carnivean but which caught seperph. Dragons charges sereph and does significant damage. Beast charges sereph, threshers, finishes it off and the buys attacks on Carnivean to remove it.
Second game in a row where I used Winter's Wrath to get work done. I didn't think I WOULD be doing that often but solid solid spell.
|
|
|
Post by smoothcriminal on May 20, 2018 16:36:25 GMT
Winter's wrath not requiring direct hit to freeze makes it very interesting. In a lot of cases it can be better than S1 spell because you can freeze high def target off a low def one or just auto freeze something 2" away from S3.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on May 20, 2018 16:59:47 GMT
Winter's wrath not requiring direct hit to freeze makes it very interesting. In a lot of cases it can be better than S1 spell because you can freeze high def target off a low def one or just auto freeze something 2" away from S3. Truth. Game prior I found it highly viable as a way of shutting down a unit because the commander (frozen like an iceman) could not give orders. The second game used it to trigger shatter for Drago and let him get some good work done. Plus her gun lets her do some good sniping. People will find her a very fun caster to play once she gets general release in a few weeks.
|
|
|
Post by auraco on May 21, 2018 15:41:58 GMT
What kind of list do you want her to see on the pther sode of the table? What are her good and bad match ups?
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on May 21, 2018 19:31:04 GMT
What kind of list do you want her to see on the pther sode of the table? What are her good and bad match ups? Bad: High quality shooting with Control elements is no good. (see report from playing Juris's Haley 2 list) because it is still a low volume of attack lists (essentially unfixed/balance element in the CID). You just can not afford to start losing models early. I think WM spam/buffed attacks that can ignore/power through the supressor fire also would be no good. Think Uhlans under fury/battlelust/Butcher or equivalent. Also strong anti-cloud game. Also in the bad list would be anything that has a good incorp. game. She has a spell but if you need more than that you could be in trouble. Middling: We theory dojo'ed the new Legion and Warspears/mongers/Blight bringer the other day. That could be a challenge but not horrible if you understand how that list works - and thus why certain unconventional strategies might be better. I think you will find some other lists like that as well - so you need to understand lists where bunching up, which will normally be the right play, isn't the right play. That is also a yellow light because of grevious wounds....something that this list doesn't like because of how ball busting no-knockdown tough on ARM 23 models with 8 wounds otherwise can be. More Broadly speaking - something that can go toe to toe with the Shocks, which out threats them, and which doesn't care about the clouds or covering fire. There are a few lists out there that do that but not ton. Middling Plus. My menoth friend and I disagree about Amon. I think this is a hard list for Amon as there will be clouds, the shocks are not paper thin even with synergy and the lights melt on the counter attack. Plus no-knockdown tough. But he thinks the piece trade ends up with Amon and 2-3 jacks left against just sorscha. I think the Kodiak can wreck multiple lights with minimal investment of resources. Slayer spam seems another one in the middle that has to be play tested. Over time a question here will be ragman - do you NEED to get some offensive work done with the shocks above and beyond what they can do with axes and cannons? Good match ups: Anything that is going to use high value melee to deal with the ARM 23 shocks. These are the matchs that work great for you as it allows you to leverage stoke the fires and flank to maximum effect. Send 10-12=13+ jacks/beasts into the shocks. Hell yes because I have a chance to remove those with minimal focus expenditures on the counter with the jacks. Fun match-ups/thinking man's warmachine. Anything that allows me to leverage winters wrath (see above) to control your opponent. So, for example, I think Champions could have some challenges here (out of Northkin theme) because I am gunning to freeze the unit leader and deny the charge order. Doge could be useful as well - allowing Sorscha to get to DEF 16 against Melee which is not trivially easy to hit and which, if combined with retailatory strike, could be a real problem for your opponent and enable her to influence the battle field.
|
|
|
Post by auraco on May 21, 2018 20:28:28 GMT
Thanks for the rundown of the match ups Sand. I'll get her once she is officially out, seems like she isn't exactly simple to play with the different element of her kit working well in practice.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on May 21, 2018 20:36:10 GMT
Thanks for the rundown of the match ups Sand. I'll get her once she is officially out, seems like she isn't exactly simple to play with the different element of her kit working well in practice. I find her middle high in level of skill. Which I think works great because the rest of your army is GENERALLY fast to play. You can thus take your time thinking about S3 and how to get the most work done while not fretting about your clock.... THis is the scale I use there. A) vlad1 - Cast S&P until you don't. The hard part is rolling dice fast enough, removing the lowest, and doing all of that work. Mindless in many ways ;-) B) Butcher3. Deliver the man. Some good brain teasers because you have to make sure he doesn't die on the approach - though that is what Winter guards are sacrificed for ;-) C) Sorsha3. You have the shocks and Antas who are easy to move. Ditto Kovnik. But she needs to be thought about....as well as the jacks. A nice balance between plotting and then easy elements that don't take a ton of clock. D) Strakov 1. By FAR the most interesting (but time intensive) caster you can run even with less than a dozen models because to maximize everything you really have to think a turn ahead and overrun is not easy on the clock to do right. A thinking man's caster if there ever was. Probably others are in here as well. Not sure about where OW1 and OW2 fall (haven't played them enough). Could place the others in as well. Not sure you want to run 2 time intensive/thinking casters because your grey matter only lasts so long during a LONG 4-5 round tournament.
|
|
Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
|
Post by Juris on May 21, 2018 21:58:15 GMT
Thanks for the rundown of the match ups Sand. I'll get her once she is officially out, seems like she isn't exactly simple to play with the different element of her kit working well in practice. I find her middle high in level of skill. Which I think works great because the rest of your army is GENERALLY fast to play. You can thus take your time thinking about S3 and how to get the most work done while not fretting about your clock.... THis is the scale I use there. A) vlad1 - Cast S&P until you don't. The hard part is rolling dice fast enough, removing the lowest, and doing all of that work. Mindless in many ways ;-) B) Butcher3. Deliver the man. Some good brain teasers because you have to make sure he doesn't die on the approach - though that is what Winter guards are sacrificed for ;-) C) Sorsha3. You have the shocks and Antas who are easy to move. Ditto Kovnik. But she needs to be thought about....as well as the jacks. A nice balance between plotting and then easy elements that don't take a ton of clock. D) Strakov 1. By FAR the most interesting (but time intensive) caster you can run even with less than a dozen models because to maximize everything you really have to think a turn ahead and overrun is not easy on the clock to do right. A thinking man's caster if there ever was. Probably others are in here as well. Not sure about where OW1 and OW2 fall (haven't played them enough). Could place the others in as well. Not sure you want to run 2 time intensive/thinking casters because your grey matter only lasts so long during a LONG 4-5 round tournament. Nice breakdown, but on a scale of Kara Sloan to Haley, how complicated is Sorscha3?
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on May 21, 2018 22:45:58 GMT
I find her middle high in level of skill. Which I think works great because the rest of your army is GENERALLY fast to play. You can thus take your time thinking about S3 and how to get the most work done while not fretting about your clock.... THis is the scale I use there. A) vlad1 - Cast S&P until you don't. The hard part is rolling dice fast enough, removing the lowest, and doing all of that work. Mindless in many ways ;-) B) Butcher3. Deliver the man. Some good brain teasers because you have to make sure he doesn't die on the approach - though that is what Winter guards are sacrificed for ;-) C) Sorsha3. You have the shocks and Antas who are easy to move. Ditto Kovnik. But she needs to be thought about....as well as the jacks. A nice balance between plotting and then easy elements that don't take a ton of clock. D) Strakov 1. By FAR the most interesting (but time intensive) caster you can run even with less than a dozen models because to maximize everything you really have to think a turn ahead and overrun is not easy on the clock to do right. A thinking man's caster if there ever was. Probably others are in here as well. Not sure about where OW1 and OW2 fall (haven't played them enough). Could place the others in as well. Not sure you want to run 2 time intensive/thinking casters because your grey matter only lasts so long during a LONG 4-5 round tournament. Nice breakdown, but on a scale of Kara Sloan to Haley, how complicated is Sorscha3? between ;-) I think she plays mostly like Seige2 - but less forgiving because Jump really helps bail him out a TON compared to how S3 moves around the battle field. But like S2 she is a synergistic caster that can also get work done on her own if she wants. While Siege buffs infantry, she is largely buffing Jacks (though Winters Wrath and DemoCorp do get work done ;-)
|
|
Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
|
Post by Juris on May 21, 2018 23:23:53 GMT
Nice breakdown, but on a scale of Kara Sloan to Haley, how complicated is Sorscha3? between ;-) I think she plays mostly like Seige2 - but less forgiving because Jump really helps bail him out a TON compared to how S3 moves around the battle field. But like S2 she is a synergistic caster that can also get work done on her own if she wants. While Siege buffs infantry, she is largely buffing Jacks (though Winters Wrath and DemoCorp do get work done ;-) Solid explication. I think what you're saying is, we need to give Sorscha3 a rocket pack? What if she got a free Wind Rush at the end of an activation in which she successfully charged a model? That would be pretty cool and effective while not too strong.
|
|
Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
|
Post by Growl on May 22, 2018 0:49:11 GMT
Nice write ups and observations! I’m always looking for an excuse to play any type of Sorscha. Now I just the model to be released!
|
|
|
Post by auraco on May 22, 2018 1:30:53 GMT
between ;-) I think she plays mostly like Seige2 - but less forgiving because Jump really helps bail him out a TON compared to how S3 moves around the battle field. But like S2 she is a synergistic caster that can also get work done on her own if she wants. While Siege buffs infantry, she is largely buffing Jacks (though Winters Wrath and DemoCorp do get work done ;-) Solid explication. I think what you're saying is, we need to give Sorscha3 a rocket pack? What if she got a free Wind Rush at the end of an activation in which she successfully charged a model? That would be pretty cool and effective while not too strong. It would sure be cool, but she just got out of CID, I'm not sure we'll see changes to these models in the mid or even long term.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on May 22, 2018 3:45:59 GMT
between ;-) I think she plays mostly like Seige2 - but less forgiving because Jump really helps bail him out a TON compared to how S3 moves around the battle field. But like S2 she is a synergistic caster that can also get work done on her own if she wants. While Siege buffs infantry, she is largely buffing Jacks (though Winters Wrath and DemoCorp do get work done ;-) Solid explication. I think what you're saying is, we need to give Sorscha3 a rocket pack? What if she got a free Wind Rush at the end of an activation in which she successfully charged a model? That would be pretty cool and effective while not too strong. I think what makes Seige strong is that jump is a place. That really helps "hide" errors in placement and order of activation that can sometimes be a pain ("Oh drat, Irusk did NOT want to end up there but needed to get Battle lust out") with an infantry caster. Now the flip side is that _IF_ it isn't a jack then sorcha can windrush through MoWs because of tactician on a stick with Altanas. I can't wait to try her with the Big Chariot. Smite and then her own slam freeze stuff will make some fun...... plus with Prime I am trying white again ;-) We will see if the paint job works cause if it does stripping Beast and redoing him with some battle damage.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on May 22, 2018 3:52:51 GMT
Solid explication. I think what you're saying is, we need to give Sorscha3 a rocket pack? What if she got a free Wind Rush at the end of an activation in which she successfully charged a model? That would be pretty cool and effective while not too strong. It would sure be cool, but she just got out of CID, I'm not sure we'll see changes to these models in the mid or even long term. Yeah she is done and I think ended up in a good place. I can't wait to try her with a chariot - I guess I will buy one, as I think it is near Guaranteed to offer a chance to trigger flank (possible multiples) depending on what they send into the Shocks.
|
|