Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Feb 1, 2018 5:59:22 GMT
considering one of the models in the CID received no change, the warchief, you can effectively count him out. The warspears got no changes either. The only thing that affected them was the theme benefits. Which, come to think of it, it's odd that they would go that route. They can only be taken in that theme anyhow. Why not just put it on the card?
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Post by maximumhippo on Feb 1, 2018 6:12:24 GMT
considering one of the models in the CID received no change, the warchief, you can effectively count him out. The warspears got no changes either. The only thing that affected them was the theme benefits. Which, come to think of it, it's odd that they would go that route. They can only be taken in that theme anyhow. Why not just put it on the card? War chief got cheaper, so yes, in the strictest sense he did change. IMO, not enough of one as I still don't see any reason to actually play the war chief, especially when Gorag exists. The spears picking up vengeance is also a change.The reason they didn't just add it to the base card is exactly the same logic you're using to suggest that it should have been added to the card. It's only a theme benefit so that you'll play in theme. they're very much pushing against playing out of theme without outright saying that theme is the way to play.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Feb 1, 2018 6:33:40 GMT
Was Bethayne really that much of a terror in MK2 ? No one I knew was complaining about her Its not about complaints about any individual thing. Think of it as a design goal/principle thats formed from complaints about balance, either OP or UP. Numbers are easier to tweak and balance than weird sideways abilities. They can look at a bell curve and say "this puts this caster here" more or less. Not with 100% accuracy but its certainly easier than dealing with some of the off the wall feats and spells that have disappeared since. All someone has to say is "rebalance with this design philosophy" and you start seeing the weird gradually replaced with raw numbers. Edit: think of it like the change from 3.5 to 4th ed d+d. They managed to balance a pretty much identical feat for Rahn though... Edit, also you can boil it down to raw numbers, you can say, 'Bethayne can cast 2 fully boosted venoms and a disintegrate, you can take 2 units of hex hunters, 2 sorceress on hellions, black frost shard, thrones, or whatever combination of the above fits in a list. Ok now how much damage can all those boosted attacks do and with what accuracy?' Cant be that hard to run those numbers
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Post by mcdermott on Feb 1, 2018 6:36:48 GMT
Its not about complaints about any individual thing. Think of it as a design goal/principle thats formed from complaints about balance, either OP or UP. Numbers are easier to tweak and balance than weird sideways abilities. They can look at a bell curve and say "this puts this caster here" more or less. Not with 100% accuracy but its certainly easier than dealing with some of the off the wall feats and spells that have disappeared since. All someone has to say is "rebalance with this design philosophy" and you start seeing the weird gradually replaced with raw numbers. Edit: think of it like the change from 3.5 to 4th ed d+d. They managed to balance a pretty much identical feat for Rahn though... IIRC ret hasn't had an official CID, just some sort of tack onto the BE CID and a 12 factions. give it time
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Feb 1, 2018 6:40:23 GMT
They managed to balance a pretty much identical feat for Rahn though... IIRC ret hasn't had an official CID, just some sort of tack onto the BE CID and a 12 factions. give it time So you think Rahn needs to be changed?
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Post by mcdermott on Feb 1, 2018 7:03:43 GMT
I haven't offered an opinion, other than why "weird" feats get changed to number swing feats.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Feb 1, 2018 7:13:18 GMT
I haven't offered an opinion, other than why "weird" feats get changed to number swing feats. I agree with that part, but I would have counted Bethaynes old feat as a number swing, it's just adding dice. Do you feel it was a 'weird' feat?
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Post by Swampmist on Feb 1, 2018 7:19:06 GMT
coming in to say: I fully expect the khador release to be smaller as well. Based on timings, it's fully possible that Blighted Ogrun and Man o Wars are going to be "sharing" a release window as it were, because PP has to meet a deadline to get them out before crucible guard. It was also explain why we didn't get a huge base; the khador huge base is taking up that slot on the Black Anchor release list.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Feb 1, 2018 8:13:54 GMT
The warspears got no changes either. The only thing that affected them was the theme benefits. Which, come to think of it, it's odd that they would go that route. They can only be taken in that theme anyhow. Why not just put it on the card? War chief got cheaper, so yes, in the strictest sense he did change. IMO, not enough of one as I still don't see any reason to actually play the war chief, especially when Gorag exists. The spears picking up vengeance is also a change.The reason they didn't just add it to the base card is exactly the same logic you're using to suggest that it should have been added to the card. It's only a theme benefit so that you'll play in theme. they're very much pushing against playing out of theme without outright saying that theme is the way to play. Oh man. I didn't realize the solo is 6 points currently. That's awful. He's still bad at 5 points.
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Post by dogganmguest on Feb 1, 2018 8:17:48 GMT
considering one of the models in the CID received no change, the warchief, you can effectively count him out. Unyielding and powerful charge have both been in his rules every week (though not properly marked in the changes at the bottom). Was this a mistake?
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Post by maximumhippo on Feb 1, 2018 8:48:42 GMT
War chief got cheaper, so yes, in the strictest sense he did change. IMO, not enough of one as I still don't see any reason to actually play the war chief, especially when Gorag exists. The spears picking up vengeance is also a change.The reason they didn't just add it to the base card is exactly the same logic you're using to suggest that it should have been added to the card. It's only a theme benefit so that you'll play in theme. they're very much pushing against playing out of theme without outright saying that theme is the way to play. Oh man. I didn't realize the solo is 6 points currently. That's awful. He's still bad at 5 points. He's bad for free. I have the option to not pay for him, and he's still not worth taking. I might take him, for free, if he was literally the only option.
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Feb 1, 2018 9:00:55 GMT
Oh man. I didn't realize the solo is 6 points currently. That's awful. He's still bad at 5 points. He's bad for free. I have the option to not pay for him, and he's still not worth taking. I might take him, for free, if he was literally the only option. I think the only situation to pick him is when you need him to get next free card, in last version theme ogrun models count for free points. So it's better to have him and hellmouth for 5 than only hellmouth for 6
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Post by gobber on Feb 1, 2018 9:06:01 GMT
I agree he's a terrible free pick; far more likely to be paid for to hit that last point break for the free hellmouth when the points aren't adding up otherwise. Anamag and Thagrosh still have the extra incentive to bring the vet leader buff their spells. One thematic thing they might have done for him: rapid healing? *hides from the poked hornets nest*
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Post by maximumhippo on Feb 1, 2018 9:12:14 GMT
That does make more sense. I disagree on the Vet leader point though. with Gorag it is really easy to apply better buff. I don't see it.
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Post by gobber on Feb 1, 2018 9:20:02 GMT
That does make more sense. I disagree on the Vet leader point though. with Gorag it is really easy to apply better buff. I don't see it. Gorag's definitely better, but I'd assume he's already in the list or couldn't be because chosen or warspears got higher priority than his attached stuff.
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