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Post by ikeda on Jan 22, 2018 15:13:54 GMT
All,
Having some issues in my head justifying my HH purchase.
1) Still in first year back. Having issues consistently winning. Most of that is on me not understanding my opponents. I tend to do really well in mirrors where I understand units but a Troll mirror is terribly long. Or I play scenario completely wrong.
2) Got the HH with the coupon. But I'm finding that all my lists that have HH are, for lack of a better term, cheesy. They seem to overly rely on Fire/Oil combo. And then the only caster seems to be Horgle2 which negates a lot of other things.
3) I'm not finding a combination of casters I like with HH lists. It seems like Bearka SotN, Mad1 BoH Champs, or Kol's PoD all do what I want them to do but more efficiently.
Reading through the forums, I think it's Trollock that did a 10 game challenge thing. I think I'm going to start that. I've been jumping between casters to see who I like but haven't really settled on anyone.
Do you think the HH is going to see actual table time? Or do you think it'll go the way of the WW, which I don't think I've ever seen played (and mine is half built in my to-do box)? I know there was a time with a double WW list but it feels like the HH is too expensive to run more than 1 but even for 1 I have options that may kill things better.
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Post by allinontrolls on Jan 22, 2018 15:27:41 GMT
In my opinion the main problem for the ww is that he is only allowed in our weakest theme. For the hh I think it is more fluff then good. Perhaps their will be some lists where he is playable.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 22, 2018 15:30:19 GMT
There is a difference between the HHH and the WW.
The WW is an incredible piece, and the reason it is not widely played is that it is bound to a theme that is... Sub optimal.
The HHH is an OK piece, and it is tied to a theme that works very well without it.
I have not built many lists that i really like the HHH in, and i do not think it is a "must have" even if you want to play SotN exclusively. I do think it is a fine piece, and you can build several lists that benefit from it. A GK for example REALLY likes that +1 to hit with his shots. The Oil + fire thing is neat, but +1 to hit is a neat interaction too, and Stumbling Drunk on cheap infantry could be infuriating.
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Post by robbleyourworld on Jan 22, 2018 20:06:46 GMT
I dont' really think Horgle2 + HHH is all that fantastic of a combo since the fire interactions from both horgle and the HHH is "boosted" they don't stack well so its really just another thing bringing fire. I think the HHH can be good with cheap infantry that benefit from the +1 to hit and the stumbling drunk aura or with northkin beasts who enjoy both as well. It clearly interacts well with Raiders and during the CID when I used them together I was very pleased. Someone posted a Grim2 + Raider's list on FB today and its had me thinking of how better to implement that combo and I think the HHH might be alright there. With mortality + oil and Veteran Leader you're talking about rat 8 boosted pow 14's which isn't too shabby. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0Gcx0riYjqfI6Gj20li-6mj5cCj3Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North !!! Your army contains a pre-release entry. !!! Your army contains a CID entry. (Grim 2) Hunters Grim [+25] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Ice Troll [9] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Bog Trog Mist Speaker [4] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Long Riders (max) [20] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] - Trollkin Sorcerer (1) [3] Hearthgut Hooch Hauler [18] Battle bears are an option as well |
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274 
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Post by jarrow on Jan 24, 2018 6:09:08 GMT
Some lists I posted earlier HHH theat: Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Storm of the North
(Grissel 2) Grissel Bloodsong, Marshal of the Kriels [+27]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
Bog Trog Mist Speaker [4]
Fell Caller Hero [0(5)]
Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
- Northkin Elder [0(3)]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Northkin Raiders (max) [15]
Pyg Lookouts (min) [7]
Hearthgut Hooch Hauler [18] | Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Storm of the North
(Grissel 1) Grissel Bloodsong, Fell Caller [+29]
- Dire Troll Brawler [16]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
Fell Caller Hero [0(5)]
Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
- Northkin Elder [0(3)]
Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]
Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Northkin Raiders (max) [15]
Hearthgut Hooch Hauler [18] | And elwinar's Borka2 list I really like:
Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Storm of the North
(Borka 2) Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27]
- Earthborn Dire Troll [14]
- Pyre Troll [8]
- Rok [19]
- Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)]
Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
- Northkin Elder [3]
Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]
Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Hearthgut Hooch Hauler [18]
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Grissel2 use HHH as ranged support. Grissel1 on the other hand use more HHH as assault wagon that can be pulled back with Hoof It and at the same time it will support both ranged and melee. Borka 2 use more Stumbling drunk and passively use veteran leader also for counter charges. |
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Post by mydnight on Jan 24, 2018 6:42:30 GMT
I really feel you need raiders to justify the hauler, and even then you probably have to bring lookouts (unless you're running some accuracy buff like grim).
Grim2 or Grissel+raiders+hauler seems great though.
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Jan 25, 2018 22:58:09 GMT
FWIW, Hooch Hauler will be added to the Kriel Company Theme per Privateer Press' Twitter.
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Post by Ajax on Jan 26, 2018 0:06:37 GMT
FWIW, Hooch Hauler will be added to the Kriel Company Theme per Privateer Press' Twitter. I heard about this, but I'm still not entirely sure that it's going to change much... the HHH still works best in a SotN list, since it has so many synergies with other models in theme...there just aren't enough Northkin models to benefit from this...maybe a Glacier King? But at that point, why not just take it in SotN? Interested to hear what others think. Edit: Just realized Northkin Raiders are also "ranged" units...so boosted RNG12 (Snipe) shots with Oil hitting at a possible POW14 RAT6 with Grim2...hmmm, will have to experiment with this more. |
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Post by grabsnikk on Jan 26, 2018 0:15:44 GMT
FWIW, Hooch Hauler will be added to the Kriel Company Theme per Privateer Press' Twitter. I heard about this, but I'm still not entirely sure that it's going to change much... the HHH still works best in a SotN list, since it has so many synergies with other models in theme...there just aren't enough Northkin models to benefit from this...maybe a Glacier King? But at that point, why not just take it in SotN? Interested to hear what others think. Edit: Just realized Northkin Raiders are also "ranged" units...so boosted RNG12 (Snipe) shots, or def debuffs from either of the grims could be great...hmmm, will have to experiment with this more. I honestly don't think that it will make a difference whether it is included in KC or not. The problem with that theme is the sub par ranged units and no access to anything that can crack armour in melee outside of a gargantuan. The HHH does not address either of these problems. |
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Post by Ajax on Jan 26, 2018 0:25:09 GMT
I heard about this, but I'm still not entirely sure that it's going to change much... the HHH still works best in a SotN list, since it has so many synergies with other models in theme...there just aren't enough Northkin models to benefit from this...maybe a Glacier King? But at that point, why not just take it in SotN? Interested to hear what others think. Edit: Just realized Northkin Raiders are also "ranged" units...so boosted RNG12 (Snipe) shots, or def debuffs from either of the grims could be great...hmmm, will have to experiment with this more. I honestly don't think that it will make a difference whether it is included in KC or not. The problem with that theme is the sub par ranged units and no access to anything that can crack armour in melee outside of a gargantuan. The HHH does not address either of these problems. Eh...that's fair. Trying to build out a quick list on conflictchamber, there wasn't much that I didn't already have access to in SotN. |
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Jan 26, 2018 5:50:07 GMT
Grissel2 is one of casters that prefer Kriel company over SotN cos she has no upkeep spells and as a ranged caster seeing through your own models helps activation order:
So same list I posted earlier, but Valka changed to Braylen:
[Theme] Kriel Company
(Grissel 2) Grissel Bloodsong, Marshal of the Kriels [+27]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
Bog Trog Mist Speaker [4]
Fell Caller Hero [0(5)]
Braylen Wanderheart, Trollkin Outlaw [0(5)]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
- Northkin Elder [0(3)]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Northkin Raiders (max) [15]
Pyg Lookouts (min) [7]
Hearthgut Hooch Hauler [18]
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Post by gobber on Jan 26, 2018 7:15:05 GMT
Agreed that the HHH and Horgle2 don't work well together as they provide the same buffs to their army. Best part of stumbledrunk is the no-knockdown and horgle has solid ground. Oil and horglefeat both boost damage rolls so can't stack.
Adding the HHH definitely brings Krielco back up a bit as the raiders now work as well in either theme (and are the best melee unit in theme unless boomhowlers get buffed). Also, you can now do fun stuff like Madrak3+Seaking+Warwagon+Warwagon+Hooch Hauler+Raiders+3 solos+3pts of minions (which might actually be a decent list?)
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Post by Trollock on Jan 26, 2018 7:36:37 GMT
My gut reaction was "why would i ever bother"? when you said the HHH would be added to KC. But i do think there are a few times where it is actually viable. As jarrow points out, if you were going to play a "shooty" SotN list, it is probably better to play it in SotN in some cases. If you were going for the HHH + Raider combo it might very well be worth going KC, since you get +1 to go first and that is absolutely amazing. You lose out on a whole bunch of awesome list options for sure, but it is at least possible that the end result will be better than a SotN variant of the same list. Its sort of like the BoH/SotN- problem. Many times, you can just as well play SotN and bring the same models you were going to bring in SotN, but the theme bonuses of BoH might be better in some cases. Anyway, this cant be a bad thing. It may not matter often, but if it matters at least one time, ill take it  |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 26, 2018 11:50:05 GMT
It's pretty clear at this point the pre-order sales for the Hooch Hauler have been much less than PP wanted. They have been endlessly plugging it in Twitter, sent out 25 dollar off vouchers, and now have shoe-horned it into another theme, must be getting pretty desperate as there are only 5 days left in the pre-order window
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Jan 26, 2018 12:29:37 GMT
I think allowing HHH to kriel company is really logical, as KC should include all trolls with ranged weapons. And it's also logical they wont update theme itself until model is released.
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