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Post by Korianneder on Apr 13, 2017 22:03:55 GMT
However, to the point of the thread (who is the *worst*), I would still take Troll infantry over Convergence infantry. Heck, Convergence doesn't even have an infantry theme yet. I think I like that there is variety in CoC. Even though the only have a few options. They have: - High def, hiGH Speed Melee Unit - Tough elite Infantry - Tough Single Wound Infantry - Anti Infantry Elite shooting Infantry - Anti Infantry single Wound Shooting infantry I do understand the argument that they are the worst, because they only have 5 units, but wow those 5 units all fill different and interesting niches. Ugh wah? Obstructors are not tough single wound infantry. They're def 12 arm 14. Our anti infantry shooting unit is reductions which are spray 6 rat 5 def 12 arm 14. We don't have elite shooting anywhere in faction. Please tell me you're not talking about perforators. I'd rather have prebuff sluggers. Reciprocators and eradicators are good with a couple casters. That's about it. We're in the same boat as trolls since we have to bring support models to boost the attrition of our infantry since we both have low def and low to medium armor. However I'd rather have tough and the stone over the nerfed recursion from Enigma foundries any day of the week.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Apr 13, 2017 23:18:13 GMT
If BoH Theme is supposed to be a 'fix it' Theme for Trollblood infantry, I sure hope my Convergence infantry gets a better choice! As it is, the ONLY unit I recommend for new TB players to buy is KSB max + SSE, unless they are used to/don't mind the 40k style of removing a lot of models off the battlefield without having done much except eat bullets.
Also, if one wants to field a bit of useful small-based infantry models, CoC's Theme is brilliant (but not diverse). Play a metric ton of Shield Guarding Servitors that do a great job (of dying) for their army!
(Full disclosure: I own every TB infantry unit, and all but one of CoC's )
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Post by gobber on Apr 14, 2017 0:34:27 GMT
As it is, the ONLY unit I recommend for new TB players to buy is KSB max + SSE, unless they are used to/don't mind the 40k style of removing a lot of models off the battlefield without having done much except eat bullets. Even though I'm also pessimistic about the state of troll infantry, I would think FireEaters and the Knot still make the cut. It wouldn't be a new TB player recommendation for the reasons you outline, but I'm also a pretty big fan of unled kriel warriors for the aforementioned bullet eating.
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Post by Azuresun on Apr 14, 2017 8:57:58 GMT
The problem in general is that against serious gunlines or infantry hate, light melee infantry won't even manage to jam. They'll just get swept off the board from 0.1" within maximum range of guns, or cavalry will sweep them away and reposition out of retaliation range. They often die without even slowing the enemy down.
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Post by GrumpyBear on Apr 17, 2017 12:57:00 GMT
My friend plays Fennblades, and while I understand people saying they die easily, even against my Vlad 1 Rifleman swarm (2 6 man Rifles, 10 Winterguard Infantry) Fenns with a feat buff or the run engage are problematic and usually about half make it.
I feel like many people who say infantry can't function just don't take enough. 10 Fennblades is one round of shooting. 24 Fennblades is one round of shooting then cleaving charge attacks.
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Post by jest on Apr 17, 2017 21:41:34 GMT
However, to the point of the thread (who is the *worst*), I would still take Troll infantry over Convergence infantry. Heck, Convergence doesn't even have an infantry theme yet. I think I like that there is variety in CoC. Even though the only have a few options. They have: - High def, hiGH Speed Melee Unit - Tough elite Infantry - Tough Single Wound Infantry - Anti Infantry Elite shooting Infantry - Anti Infantry single Wound Shooting infantry I do understand the argument that they are the worst, because they only have 5 units, but wow those 5 units all fill different and interesting niches. Yes CoC is designed so everything fills a role so that's nice so we have options even though there's a small handful to choose from. We don't have any Tough, so I assume you mean the 8 boxes on our medium guys I LOVED CoC infantry, especially Eradicators - 15 pts for 17 arm, 40 boxes and 10 attacks a turn. Angels are a fun scalpel unit but are hard to trade up since its 3 POW 10 shots or 3 POW 12 attacks on charge for 5 points. After they charge they almost always die, but very fun, and good for mind games. Our single-wound guys aren't really tough, but they are cheap, they can shield guard at SPD 5 I guess. Reciprocators are ARM 16, 8 boxes, POW 14 on charge, not bad. Our shooting infantry is pretty bad, judging from recent polls on CoC boards I think 90% would agree. Now the issue with all of the above...you have to take all of the above stats at face value because... -Only troop caster is well below average in overall power level (but really fun!). The other casters either dont help troops at all (Synth, Iron Mother) or help troops with a spell or two but overall help jacks way more (Axis, Lucant). We have one unit attachment that gives a short-range spray and a mini-feat to reroll attack rolls. Therefore, troop support is limited so your really looking at base stats. -All of our troops were built with recursion in mind and (I would argue) haven't been patched to balance the fact the recursion is a lot weaker now. I feel kind of icky arguing "hey our infantry sucks" , but now they stay in storage unless I'm teaching a newer player. There are a lot of Troll players in our meta and they are beast heavy as well so I assume most of their infantry stinks, but I also know that they can design their list for infantry to try and make it work, whereas CoC doesn't even have that option. Plus Trolls mostly have Tough so you can always count on them to tarpit. Again, it's the lack of support that kills CoC, when I play against trolls Madrak is giving them DEF + no knockdown with Tough. Grissel giving them SPD and Tough and armor. Stone, Janissa also helping them out. These are all viable casters and solos that work. We just can't give any help on the CoC side.
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Post by trollsareblue on Apr 18, 2017 12:35:33 GMT
My friend plays Fennblades, and while I understand people saying they die easily, even against my Vlad 1 Rifleman swarm (2 6 man Rifles, 10 Winterguard Infantry) Fenns with a feat buff or the run engage are problematic and usually about half make it. I feel like many people who say infantry can't function just don't take enough. 10 Fennblades is one round of shooting. 24 Fennblades is one round of shooting then cleaving charge attacks. See, this is the problem with anecdotal evidence. You think that you are running a shooting swarm. I think that looks pretty sub-par for shooting. Quantity does not make quality, either. You are suggesting people spend a minimum of 45 points on that block of infantry, and are further suggesting that, somehow, the 10 or so dudes that you think will make the lines will do enough damage to justify that investment.
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