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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 8, 2017 3:25:48 GMT
Said like someone who has not played Nemo1 . I mean, Nemo1 and Nemo3 share the same name but they are not the same. Nemo1 offers more shooting resilience and more threat extension. Nemo3 is a shooting list sans any shooting buffs. Nemo1 is a melee list almost entirely, Nemo3 is a ranged list. Let me explain the difference. Let's say you're facing Haley2, Stormwall and Thorn. This is unlikely as Haley2 is rarely a Cygnar drop. Still, it's a strong list and will properly explore the purpose of why Nemo1 is better. Nemo3 wants his feat to kill to the Arcane Shielded Stormwall. Problem? Stormwall is immune to electricity and is thus totally immune to Nemo3's biggest threat, his feat. Haley's Stormwall outthreats everything on Nemo3's side of the table. Sure, Magnetic Hold is fine against Thorn, but the Stormwall's analog guns are decent into Nemo3's ARM16 and ARM18 jacks. Nemo1 is going to disrupt Thorn with his feat and then Voltaic Snare him and then shoot him to death with Dynamo. The Stormwall's guns are all dice -6 or more to Nemo1's jacks. Nemo1's PS21 Stormclad will out threat Haley's Stormwall turn after turn, Nemo3 cannot do that, he's always out threatened by Haley2's heavies. Nemo3 into anything with stealth, like Kaelyssa, just gets hosed. Nemo1 doesn't care. He casts Decel and waits it out. In short, this game rewards melee and punishes ranged attacks, almost to a fault. There's more shield guards, more self sac, more concealment than there is anti-melee tech (which I think is pretty much limited to Defensive Line). My Nemo1 list can shoot, it has (had?) 3 Fireflies and Dynamo and 2 Stormclads. Yes, Stormclads have guns. Also, what people do not expect is I use my fireflies, if they're not shooting, as slambots. Slamming jacks and disrupting them is really good, especially when it's repeatable. Last, Nemo3 either can't play into the mirror (Stormclad, Stormwall, out threatened at range by Sloan or Caine3) while Nemo1 loves to see that matchup. Part of my Haley2 problem was playing into the mirror, Sloan and Caine3 being prime candidates to kill Haley or her biggest tools (Stormwall, Thorn). Nemo1 shuts that all down. He doesn't need Nemo3's feat to kill Cygnar infantry (Afterall, Trenchers die to POW12 eleaps whether or not the damage is boosted) and he out threats every ranged and melee list in Cygnar's arsenal. Got Stryker1? I have Voltaic Snare, who cares? Got Sloan or Caine3? All your jacks are disrupted and your hunters are dice -6. Got Lances? I'm immune to their shooting and all my jacks have reach, preventing their repositions. Got Siege1? I have Decel, have a nice day. Nemo1 and Nemo3 are not the same caster. Not at all. Their playstyles are totally different. What they play into is totally different. Again you are basing your experiences on old data and claiming it can hold up. It just doesn't, as I said every nemo1 list you can come up with another caster can just simply do it better. You want to make in-faction comparisons saying its your Cygnar drop, that is wonderful Stryker1, Darius, Kraye, and even Haley3 can all drop into Cygnar as well as the Ret matchup but Stryker1, Kraye, Haley3 can also drop into Slaughterfleet, Madrak Fennblade spam, Fyana Oracles, and just your basic speedy spammy lists. Know who also can tackle most of those style lists just as well? Nemo3. So you can stop talking to me that I don't play Nemo1, I have. Just because you had some good luck with him back in SR16 doesn't mean that luck will hold over now that more themes are out, now that infantry spam is making a comeback, and now that multiple different styles are available. At best you hope to get an alpha thinking between Lightning Shroud and 4 focus it is enough to take out whatever target you attempting to kill because if you don't (and the player you are playing against is hordes) they can just piece trade with you. If you are targetting a heavier target like a BE or colossal chances you will need to commit 2 jacks or at the very least commit 1 to melee and use Firefly and Dynamo to finish it off. If you don't which honestly ARM 27 Cygnar colossal, ARM 22 Animatrax (ARM 24 if your under baby elephant's range in melee), and Mountain King under Doomy3's feat benefitting from stones will be quite hard to do and those models will be in a great position to continue to piece trade with you. Even if we flat out ignore the Stryker 1 ARM 27 Stormwall/hurricane Against Animatrax thats 7 to 8 damage on a charge and 3 to 4 per swing with the blade after that. You will need at least 2 stormclads to kill that Animatrax or at the least roll alittle on the higher than average(which I've already calculated +1 damage per swing on average) with Stormclad or Dynamo. Against MK you will definitely need to roll hot or focus fire. Simply put you do a total of 32 damage in 1 activation with a stormclad. Out of 6 swings at the very least 18 of that will be healed back (not including D3 part of the roll just the 3). It just sounds like to me you are looking at Nemo1 through rose color tints while 3 out of the 5 cygnar casters I mentioned in this post have been used by big name players and have done well consistently at conventions while I haven't seen Nemo1 barely make a blip.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Dec 8, 2017 12:14:08 GMT
"dynamo will kill thorn"
Trololololol storm division thorn, get wrecked. Not to mention thorn with evasive on him can easily walk out of range. *not to mention* thorn being behind cover or a Los blocker.
Coke on, now. Implying you can catch thorn so easily ignores what the other player can do to stop it. Yes, if your opponent gives you a thorn within range of dynamo with no def buffs and doesn't hammer your own lancer with her guns or feat on dynamo will thorn is in range then you can kill thorn.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Dec 8, 2017 12:51:52 GMT
Again you are basing your experiences on old data and claiming it can hold up. It just doesn't, as I said every nemo1 list you can come up with another caster can just simply do it better. You want to make in-faction comparisons saying its your Cygnar drop, that is wonderful Stryker1, Darius, Kraye, and even Haley3 can all drop into Cygnar as well as the Ret matchup but Stryker1, Kraye, Haley3 can also drop into Slaughterfleet, Madrak Fennblade spam, Fyana Oracles, and just your basic speedy spammy lists. Know who also can tackle most of those style lists just as well? Nemo3. So you can stop talking to me that I don't play Nemo1, I have. Just because you had some good luck with him back in SR16 doesn't mean that luck will hold over now that more themes are out, now that infantry spam is making a comeback, and now that multiple different styles are available. At best you hope to get an alpha thinking between Lightning Shroud and 4 focus it is enough to take out whatever target you attempting to kill because if you don't (and the player you are playing against is hordes) they can just piece trade with you. If you are targetting a heavier target like a BE or colossal chances you will need to commit 2 jacks or at the very least commit 1 to melee and use Firefly and Dynamo to finish it off. If you don't which honestly ARM 27 Cygnar colossal, ARM 22 Animatrax (ARM 24 if your under baby elephant's range in melee), and Mountain King under Doomy3's feat benefitting from stones will be quite hard to do and those models will be in a great position to continue to piece trade with you. Even if we flat out ignore the Stryker 1 ARM 27 Stormwall/hurricane Against Animatrax thats 7 to 8 damage on a charge and 3 to 4 per swing with the blade after that. You will need at least 2 stormclads to kill that Animatrax or at the least roll alittle on the higher than average(which I've already calculated +1 damage per swing on average) with Stormclad or Dynamo. Against MK you will definitely need to roll hot or focus fire. Simply put you do a total of 32 damage in 1 activation with a stormclad. Out of 6 swings at the very least 18 of that will be healed back (not including D3 part of the roll just the 3). It just sounds like to me you are looking at Nemo1 through rose color tints while 3 out of the 5 cygnar casters I mentioned in this post have been used by big name players and have done well consistently at conventions while I haven't seen Nemo1 barely make a blip. Pretty much anything will struggle to kill a Mountain King under stone and Doomie 3s feat, or an arm 27 Stormwall, or a Derp Turtle under Rasheths feat and Gnawing pain, that is not a problem unique to Nemo 1, so I don't think it can be levelled as a particular criticism of him in general
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 8, 2017 15:45:38 GMT
Pretty much anything will struggle to kill a Mountain King under stone and Doomie 3s feat, or an arm 27 Stormwall, or a Derp Turtle under Rasheths feat and Gnawing pain, that is not a problem unique to Nemo 1, so I don't think it can be levelled as a particular criticism of him in general Well for 1. I was able to kill MK under Doomies3 feat and stone with Stryker3 a full unit of furied lances, savio, and a stormclad with Iron Aggression. 2. I wasn't even considering Rasheths feat just Inviolable Resolve(which nets same result if you want to get technical) and gnawing pain and I was able to take a derp turtle down with stryker1's double colossal list on multiple occasions. Yes I focus fired but that is one of the main strengths of s1 double colossal, I have extreme threat ranges thanks to snipe and can wrestle with the best of them in melee cause POW 20 fists. 3. Haley2 still has game to smaller model count lists which some of those armies are Here is the thing, his old list had shooting, punching power, and anti range tech. Did it work in SR16, sure. That is mainly because most of those older scenarios you didn't have to spread out as far. In SR17 and with most average lists I don't really have to come to you, infact; I can park my happy ass on my zone/flag while controlling the middle objectives/zones. Lets not forget that Nemo1 would have trouble going into many hordes(and by many I would say about 80%) matchups. He would have to avoid trollbloods, skorne, and Grymkin at the very least in its entirety. I can even name some lists Warmachine has off the top of my head Nemo1 would not be able to drop into. So your getting like a what, List A handles 90% of the match ups while List B (nemo) handles 10%? Again it seems to me we are relying on old data like Haley2 didn't get nerfed or something. It just doesn't pan out. Again nemo1 needs a rework.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Dec 8, 2017 16:01:09 GMT
Pretty much anything will struggle to kill a Mountain King under stone and Doomie 3s feat, or an arm 27 Stormwall, or a Derp Turtle under Rasheths feat and Gnawing pain, that is not a problem unique to Nemo 1, so I don't think it can be levelled as a particular criticism of him in general Well for 1. I was able to kill MK under Doomies3 feat and stone with Stryker3 a full unit of furied lances, savio, and a stormclad with Iron Aggression. 2. I wasn't even considering Rasheths feat just Inviolable Resolve(which nets same result if you want to get technical) and gnawing pain and I was able to take a derp turtle down with stryker1's double colossal list on multiple occasions. Yes I focus fired but that is one of the main strengths of s1 double colossal, I have extreme threat ranges thanks to snipe and can wrestle with the best of them in melee cause POW 20 fists. Here is the thing, his old list had shooting, punching power, and anti range tech. Did it work in SR16, sure. That is mainly because most of those older scenarios you didn't have to spread out as far. In SR17 and with most average lists I don't really have to come to you, infact; I can park my happy ass on my zone/flag while controlling the middle objectives/zones. Lets not forget that Nemo1 would have trouble going into many hordes(and by many I would say about 80%) matchups. He would have to avoid trollbloods, skorne, and Grymkin at the very least in its entirety. I can even name some lists Warmachine has off the top of my head Nemo1 would not be able to drop into. So your getting like a what, List A handles 90% of the match ups while List B (nemo) handles 10%? Again it seems to me we are relying on old data like Haley2 didn't get nerfed or something. It just doesn't pan out. Again nemo1 needs a rework. Now that Storm Division allows for a merc solo I am interested in Stryker 3. Fury and his feat mitigates the need for Ragman, so you can take Rhupert to provide pathfinder. Def 15 arm 16/18 are pretty good defensive stats, even for a large base. only problem is I wince at paying that much for a warnoun
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Post by snarlyyow on Dec 8, 2017 18:48:54 GMT
Said like someone who has not played Nemo1 . I mean, Nemo1 and Nemo3 share the same name but they are not the same. Nemo1 offers more shooting resilience and more threat extension. Nemo3 is a shooting list sans any shooting buffs. Nemo1 is a melee list almost entirely, Nemo3 is a ranged list. Let me explain the difference. Let's say you're facing Haley2, Stormwall and Thorn. This is unlikely as Haley2 is rarely a Cygnar drop. Still, it's a strong list and will properly explore the purpose of why Nemo1 is better. Nemo3 wants his feat to kill to the Arcane Shielded Stormwall. Problem? Stormwall is immune to electricity and is thus totally immune to Nemo3's biggest threat, his feat. Haley's Stormwall outthreats everything on Nemo3's side of the table. Sure, Magnetic Hold is fine against Thorn, but the Stormwall's analog guns are decent into Nemo3's ARM16 and ARM18 jacks. Nemo1 is going to disrupt Thorn with his feat and then Voltaic Snare him and then shoot him to death with Dynamo. The Stormwall's guns are all dice -6 or more to Nemo1's jacks. Nemo1's PS21 Stormclad will out threat Haley's Stormwall turn after turn, Nemo3 cannot do that, he's always out threatened by Haley2's heavies. Nemo3 into anything with stealth, like Kaelyssa, just gets hosed. Nemo1 doesn't care. He casts Decel and waits it out. In short, this game rewards melee and punishes ranged attacks, almost to a fault. There's more shield guards, more self sac, more concealment than there is anti-melee tech (which I think is pretty much limited to Defensive Line). My Nemo1 list can shoot, it has (had?) 3 Fireflies and Dynamo and 2 Stormclads. Yes, Stormclads have guns. Also, what people do not expect is I use my fireflies, if they're not shooting, as slambots. Slamming jacks and disrupting them is really good, especially when it's repeatable. Last, Nemo3 either can't play into the mirror (Stormclad, Stormwall, out threatened at range by Sloan or Caine3) while Nemo1 loves to see that matchup. Part of my Haley2 problem was playing into the mirror, Sloan and Caine3 being prime candidates to kill Haley or her biggest tools (Stormwall, Thorn). Nemo1 shuts that all down. He doesn't need Nemo3's feat to kill Cygnar infantry (Afterall, Trenchers die to POW12 eleaps whether or not the damage is boosted) and he out threats every ranged and melee list in Cygnar's arsenal. Got Stryker1? I have Voltaic Snare, who cares? Got Sloan or Caine3? All your jacks are disrupted and your hunters are dice -6. Got Lances? I'm immune to their shooting and all my jacks have reach, preventing their repositions. Got Siege1? I have Decel, have a nice day. Nemo1 and Nemo3 are not the same caster. Not at all. Their playstyles are totally different. What they play into is totally different. Again you are basing your experiences on old data and claiming it can hold up. It just doesn't, as I said every nemo1 list you can come up with another caster can just simply do it better. You want to make in-faction comparisons saying its your Cygnar drop, that is wonderful Stryker1, Darius, Kraye, and even Haley3 can all drop into Cygnar as well as the Ret matchup but Stryker1, Kraye, Haley3 can also drop into Slaughterfleet, Madrak Fennblade spam, Fyana Oracles, and just your basic speedy spammy lists. Know who also can tackle most of those style lists just as well? Nemo3. So you can stop talking to me that I don't play Nemo1, I have. Just because you had some good luck with him back in SR16 doesn't mean that luck will hold over now that more themes are out, now that infantry spam is making a comeback, and now that multiple different styles are available. At best you hope to get an alpha thinking between Lightning Shroud and 4 focus it is enough to take out whatever target you attempting to kill because if you don't (and the player you are playing against is hordes) they can just piece trade with you. If you are targetting a heavier target like a BE or colossal chances you will need to commit 2 jacks or at the very least commit 1 to melee and use Firefly and Dynamo to finish it off. If you don't which honestly ARM 27 Cygnar colossal, ARM 22 Animatrax (ARM 24 if your under baby elephant's range in melee), and Mountain King under Doomy3's feat benefitting from stones will be quite hard to do and those models will be in a great position to continue to piece trade with you. Even if we flat out ignore the Stryker 1 ARM 27 Stormwall/hurricane Against Animatrax thats 7 to 8 damage on a charge and 3 to 4 per swing with the blade after that. You will need at least 2 stormclads to kill that Animatrax or at the least roll alittle on the higher than average(which I've already calculated +1 damage per swing on average) with Stormclad or Dynamo. Against MK you will definitely need to roll hot or focus fire. Simply put you do a total of 32 damage in 1 activation with a stormclad. Out of 6 swings at the very least 18 of that will be healed back (not including D3 part of the roll just the 3). It just sounds like to me you are looking at Nemo1 through rose color tints while 3 out of the 5 cygnar casters I mentioned in this post have been used by big name players and have done well consistently at conventions while I haven't seen Nemo1 barely make a blip. I'm basing my Nemo1 experiences from about April through all of September or October of this year. I agree, a lot has happened since then. Let me count the ways: -Trolls went through CID -loads more theme forces have been released -Trencher CID took affect -SR2017 took some time for people to figure out -Haley2's umpteenth nerf came to fruition I'm sure there are more, but those are some pretty big changes to the game as a whole, entire metas have shifted in a very short period of time, and they'll continue to shift as players adjust to this evolving meta. So, look, I'll totally give you that. But how come with other casters, and I want to be earnest here, people say "Caine3 still great!" without a second thought. A big part of the reason why I started this thread is because I think Nemo1 is undervalued and overlooked. I don't know why this is, but it's true. Meta's shift and evolve and for whatever reason Sloan and Caine3 and Nemo3 all get a pass but whenever I discuss Nemo1, whether it's now or back in August I hear the same thing: "He dies" (He doesn't) "he only has play into half the game" (not true, though I admit his Hordes game isn't as strong as his Warmachine game) "Nemo3 is better" (they are not the same, this comparison is moot) "he's not relevant to the meta" (might be true, but it certainly isn't always true). It doesn't matter when I discuss it or what stage the meta is in, Cygnar players brush him off. Yes, big name players are not playing Nemo1. Of course, which big name Cygnar players are left in the world? Trevor Attridge, Jarle, Jay Larsen, Keith Christensen...none of these guys play the faction, maybe not the game anymore. If you can tell me who the best Cygnar player in North America is I'd be interested in hearing their name. In regards to Thorn, not that I ever see him much, if Storm Division, and it's possible, I've literally played the Haley2 Storm Division matchup, you Voltaic Snare thorn, slam him, and kill him. My Fireflies threat 12" slams. I slam stuff all the time with them. It's basically their whole role. I'm not afraid of Haley2 with Nemo1. I'm just not. Locally, in my meta, my problem with Haley2 has always been the Legion/Cygnar/Ret/CoC matchups. We don't see Cryx (last team tournament 60 players, two playing Cryx). Haley2 handles a ton of matchups but she doesn't do the Mirror well, she doesn't do Legion well, and Ret has always been a real gamble for her and Cygnar in general. When I looked at our stable of casters I asked myself "Who can handle those matchups?" Obviously there were some standouts, Stryker1, for instance, though he lacked the punching power to handle Lucant super well, that matchup really feels like whomever can hold their feat longer. Legion? Stryker can do it, I guess. Cygnar? Stryker handles with aplomb. I also came with Stryker2. Nemo3 didn't make the list because I didn't want to play Haley2 or Nemo3 into the mirror. Darius was also a potential answer to all of those (and I've played my share of Darius in 2016). Then I came to Nemo1. And I played some games against Cygnar and was like "hot damn, Nemo1 Firetrucking hoses all the Cygnar mirror answers." Sloan, Caine3. He can prolly play into Haley3 alright. Stryker1. Nemo1 just owned those mirror matches. I played him into Ret. I decided he was playable and a gamble but basically as good an answer as any we had. I played him into CoC. He owned that matchup too. Destruction initiative hated Nemo1. I played him into Legion and, quite simply, Decel > Wraithbane. I could piece trade with Legion beasts no problem, the death stalkers, usually a bane to Cygnar infantry everywhere, were useless in the matchup. Vayl and Lilly3 didn't know what hit them. And that's why I'm here insisting that Nemo1 is not garbage, that he's a great hard counter to things that normally give us problems. I also don't think he's unplayable into half the game, I think that's nearly laughable. No doubt he loses some steam but "unplayable"? Hardly. He's Firetrucking great into Legion. He can play into trolls if he must. I would not run him against Minions or Skorne. I would, however, run him into Grymkin easy-peasey.
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Post by darkangeldentist on Dec 8, 2017 19:19:41 GMT
I like all the Nemos and would be prepared to take them to a tournament but I do not regard them as particularly competitive or highly ranked options to lead a Cygnar force. Nemo1 is fun because he can dial a warjack up to 11 and send it off confident that it will kill the target. His feat is better than it was, thanks to damage buffs like the fireflies and there's a certain appeal to the thought of chucking out 3 chain lightnings a turn but it never feels like it all comes together for me. Assuming that he allocates 3 focus to a warjack with lightning shroud upkept on it and uses locomotion to fully extend it's threat range. That's 7 of his focus stack concentrated into 1 jack to start the piece trade. Even taking a focus off the squire and using Arlan to help with the focus load he's still not looking at doing that much besides either casting deceleration or voltaic snare. In much the same way I found him to play back in the previous edition Nemo1 has lots of focus but tends to use it rather inefficiently.
Having that much focus isn't all that special either since all the Nemos get to manipulate the amount of focus on the table in excess of their focus stat. Nemo3 is limited to fuelling his jacks more efficiently, making him much more dependant on getting the battlegroup to do the work, whilst Nemo2 has to shuffle his focus around taking it from jacks that aren't using it and giving it to other jacks or keeping it for himself. Whichever Nemo I took my experience was that they all tended to use more focus than their stats would imply. Nemo1 has the advantage of being able to keep his to himself and go over the limit of his focus stat but because of his spell list, he is probably the one who uses his focus most inefficiently.
This brings us to another hurdle that plagues him from a list design perspective. Ideally he likes to piece trade jacks with the opponent, loading it up and slingshotting it into the enemy to one-round a heavy or a couple of lights. However Cygnar doesn't have the cheapest heavies and our lights are amongst the most pillow-fisted in the game when it comes to melee. (No hymn of battle or concentrated power for us.) So if Nemo is to piece trade then he's got to use heavies to crack armour and that puts him at a disadvantage because ironclads are fragile, hammersmiths are slow and both of them cost more than a marauder or crusader. In the world of warjacks, Cygnar is about quality over quantity and even though Nemo can disrupt the enemy jacks for a turn with his feat, that's still unlikely to stop the opponent from being able to retaliate with some efficacy. (Empower being more common in every other faction save Mercs.)
Mk3 Nemo1 is a lot harder to assassinate than his Mk2 version but I wouldn't count him as resilient either and my biggest problem with him is a psychological one after a run of games where I just couldn't drop him because my opponent was largely immune to his tricks. Namely storm division mirror matches and Kreuger2. Looking across the table and seeing Stryker2 in a storm division list does not make Nemo1 a happy man. Imagaine Caine3 in storm division? (I have several times, it's more appealing than you might think.)
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 9, 2017 19:15:35 GMT
snarlyyow Here is my thing, I can point out these 2 things you said. 1. You really haven't played Nemo1 recently in SR17 2. You acknowledge a lot has changed from April til now So if you are admitting your things why continue to even argue the point? You acknowledge your experience is limited and basing a lot of what you say on old data and speculation at best. I will answer some of your questions but I will say hear out my rework and reasoning behind it before you continue to say hes fine when he is most definitely not. First things first, in SR16 I agree with you are saying about Nemo1. I came to similar conclusion. I agree he had game back then. But moving on... While Jarle & Trevor really don't play that much anymore. You still have Keith, Jay, and Patrick who while may play other factions currently have extensive knowledge on cygnar as a whole. While I had a quick chit chat with Patrick about Nemo1 time didn't permit me to have a lengthy discussion and overall his words were "He's okay". Now keep in mind, I have had the pleasure to play against Patrick over a dozen times through Vassal and it seems he does prefer Stryker1, Haley3, and Haley2. But as far as meta shifts and why people will still consider a caster like Caine3 good but don't look at Nemo1 too much is because he seems way too niche. Don't get me wrong, as you pointed out when Nemo1 counters what you bring its a definite hard counter but what if you play hordes or really heavily armored skews (whether its medium infantry or in Dwarves case, mass Forgeguard with battle engine). It just won't hold up. Now you say you are willing to go into some horde match ups and as you said a few times you fought Lylith3 and won it was probably due to her list make up. Wasn't because Decel beats Wraithbane which I am sorry dude Wraithbane ignores Decel, I think you meant to say is I can apply Decel easier then a Legion player can hand out Wraithbane. But in short, the tool sets that Nemo1 brings while useful are mainly too static and too pigeonholed to 1 type of enemy. Caine3 can apply his debuff relatively easy and can his army focus fire. As Dark pointed out, you are seeing him in Storm Division lists which means you will fight 1 BE/Hurricane(sometimes both) with Lances, chargers, and Fireflies to fill the gaps. Thats a pow 19 shot boostable coming from the Strider and a POW 20 boostable shot coming from Hurricane pre-feat. I understand sometimes pure damage isn't always the answer and sometimes tools to slow the enemy down is better but I can tell you many people will go for damage. My idea for a Nemo1 rework would be this: He is the anti-battlegroup caster. Voltaic snare should be changed to cost 3/AOE 0 "This attack causes no damage. Warjacks and Warbeasts hit suffer -4 DEF and cannot run, charge, or make slam or trample power attacks for one round". This way we increase the cost to where it can only be cast 3 times max per round. It loses the AOE so it is meant to be a single target spell(which also means if a jack/beast somehow gains spell immunity voltiac snare does nothing). By allowing Voltiac Snare to work against beasts it increases its usefulness by debuffing beasts as well. He should gain Scramble His feat should be POW 15(None damage type as oppose to being electrical) to all enemy warbeasts and warjacks in his control area. Warbeasts and warjacks damaged by Electrical Storm cannot run, charge, or make slam or trample attacks for one round. (part of me wants to add Battle engines to this but I am unsure) While may not be mass disruption, you have the spell scramble that you can arc out and it will slow down battlegroup heavy armies. I am not sure how I feel about Overpower but I definitely feel he should gain another ability on top of that. Being that he is Nemo I don't see why he can't have an anti beast/jack version of awe or blessing of Morrow. Yes, makes him slightly more tanky but again it goes with the theme of him being strong against battlegroup armies.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Dec 9, 2017 19:34:04 GMT
While I agree no damage type on the feat would be better, it is not very thematic for a feat called Electrical Storm
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Dec 9, 2017 21:01:35 GMT
Replace voltaic snare with magnetic hold.
Replace locomotion with road to war
Feat is a Pow 14 against all warjacks and warbeast. It causes disruption and paralysis to all models who are damaged. (disruption is jacks only, paralysis is living models only).
Field marshal: energised cortex: warjacks in this models battlegroup power up 2 focus instead of 1.
Then we have an interesting jack caster.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Dec 9, 2017 21:28:01 GMT
octaviusmaximus Reason why I am against Magnetic Hold is because it is an upkeep. A lot of other armies have ways to remove it. Volatic Snare is slightly better because it is a spell effect as oppose to an upkeep
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Dec 9, 2017 21:29:05 GMT
octaviusmaximus Reason why I am against Magnetic Hold is because it is an upkeep. A lot of other armies have ways to remove it. Volatic Snare is slightly better because it is a spell effect as oppose to an upkeep I am so sad that Rebuke is now an upkeep...
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Post by snarlyyow on Dec 9, 2017 21:45:50 GMT
snarlyyow Here is my thing, I can point out these 2 things you said. 1. You really haven't played Nemo1 recently in SR17 2. You acknowledge a lot has changed from April til now I don't know why you think I haven't played Nemo1 recently in SR2017. I played him through October so I've been off Nemo1 for literally a single event and by God I wish had taken him to that event! I really needed Nemo in my last matchup vs Helynna. Keith plays Cryx these days. Jay hasn't played Cygnar at a major event in prolly years. Patrick is the best Cygnar player in the world and his advice is legit. Of course, there's a big difference between Patrick and myself and the types of events we're trying to win, the types of opponents we're trying to beat, and the metas we exist in. Then I play Haley3? Decel affects my whole army, I have a lot of hard targets, even when Wraithbane is applied it cannot be applied with enough frequency to chew through my list. Voltaic SNare is Nemo's signature spell. I'd be fine if it stayed the same but affected warbeasts as well. Even if it went to Cost 3 it'd be better than it is now if it affected more of the game. Of course things being better is inherently better. Go figure. Why? He already has the "Firetruck off, warjack" spell. Why? That's ungodly strong. An auto hitting POW14 or POW16 with a Firefly that causes disruption is really good. I'd be happy if it added a Fury to the Warbeasts hit. That'd be pretty damn decent. This is really why I feel you haven't you played him. All your suggestions are borderline madness. Yes, it'd be nice if the feat and voltaic snare affected warbeasts in some additional way. I totally agree. But suggesting he needs Scramble or Overpower needs a rework and this other stuff...I mean, that's giving him a ton. octaviusmaximus suggests giving him 11 Focus then power-up all his jacks to two? I'm sorry, that's just crazy. I've said elsewhere that I think Voltaic Snare should just be changed to affect warbeasts. It can only be cast once per turn anyway (because it's super duper awesome!) so making it affect the other half of the game would go a long way all by itself. Voltaic Snare is nearly feat worthy, it's a great spell that I can't sing praises of enough. If Voltaic Snare alone changes I think he goes from a B+ to a solid A very quickly. That's literally the only change I'd make to him. Any other buffs, specifically to his feat, would be welcome but not necessary. [/quote]
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Dec 10, 2017 7:37:18 GMT
I feel like I'm still living in this weird world where people insist that voltaic snare is a good spell?
It seems garbage to me. Magnetic hold would be a flat upgrade if only to allow you to charge further and for it to work on more than just warjacks.
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Post by snarlyyow on Dec 10, 2017 18:19:29 GMT
I feel like I'm still living in this weird world where people insist that voltaic snare is a good spell? It seems garbage to me. Magnetic hold would be a flat upgrade if only to allow you to charge further and for it to work on more than just warjacks. I dunno if Magnetic hold would be better. It's a better spell but it costs 1 more, it's also and upkeep and is not an AOE.
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