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Post by darkangeldentist on Nov 2, 2017 21:46:46 GMT
They're trying to really hone in on her turd polishing. Make an elite polisher of turds. If you got a turd, she can polish it. She'll make your turds nice and shinny. Turds... The queen of Coprolite. |
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Post by zarduhasslefrau on Nov 2, 2017 22:19:21 GMT
Does that mean they'll make more turds in Cryx for her to polish. How poo poo is all this.
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Post by tesoe on Nov 3, 2017 0:09:09 GMT
Does that mean they'll make more turds in Cryx for her to polish. How poo poo is all this. We'll get a black Ogrun character solo with a hand weapon, and no special abilities for 8 points. His name is Turdinski. |
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605 
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Post by Deller on Nov 3, 2017 0:31:51 GMT
No amount of Turd polishing skills is going to help Deneghra1 as she is. She no longer has a place in competitive builds. She no longer wins the Ghost Fleet mirror match against Asphyxious1, Terminus, or the new Deneghra2. They all out Attrition her thanks to RFP spells, and she’s lost her ability to effectively assassinate any of them. She no longer wins vs Coven, as she’s just going to get controlled off the board. Thanks to Satyxis Changes Cryx no longer as any caster independent RFP that works on undead outside of Darragh & Ragman. You now need an RFP caster or Coven to take down Ghost Fleet. So Cryx’s best answer to Ghost Fleet is now Ghost Fleet, and Deneghra1 Ghost Fleet now loses to the other top 4 Ghost Fleet Casters. Deneghra1 was seeing 0play in anything other than Ghost Fleet before a nerf, there’s nothing to suggest that’s going to change. There’s no room for Deneghra1 in a pairing anymore.
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Post by tesoe on Nov 3, 2017 1:29:06 GMT
That is until someone comes up with the next winning netlist for everyone to play. Or until things change in the CID again. Week 1 isn't even over after all.
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Post by Cryptix on Nov 3, 2017 1:46:25 GMT
I just hope that whatever they do Skarre3 keeps Decel. Please, let me live my dreams of ARM 16 mcthralls.
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Post by mcdermott on Nov 3, 2017 1:52:55 GMT
No amount of Turd polishing skills is going to help Deneghra1 as she is. She no longer has a place in competitive builds. She no longer wins the Ghost Fleet mirror match against Asphyxious1, Terminus, or the new Deneghra2. They all out Attrition her thanks to RFP spells, and she’s lost her ability to effectively assassinate any of them. She no longer wins vs Coven, as she’s just going to get controlled off the board. Thanks to Satyxis Changes Cryx no longer as any caster independent RFP that works on undead outside of Darragh & Ragman. You now need an RFP caster or Coven to take down Ghost Fleet. So Cryx’s best answer to Ghost Fleet is now Ghost Fleet, and Deneghra1 Ghost Fleet now loses to the other top 4 Ghost Fleet Casters. Deneghra1 was seeing 0play in anything other than Ghost Fleet before a nerf, there’s nothing to suggest that’s going to change. There’s no room for Deneghra1 in a pairing anymore. I too often find knee jerk reactions well before any reasonable amount of testing could possibly have been done to often paint a completely accurate picture of game balance in wargames. |
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marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
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Post by marke on Nov 3, 2017 6:19:46 GMT
Yeeaahh... Deller is probably correct though. Deneghra still looks fine, but not a top contender. She is a debuff bot now, and almost lost her depth.. and dare I say, fun. I don't want to play a caster whose sole purpose is to make your troops hit harder. She can still offer some difficult-to-execute threat range extension thanks to -2 SPD, but I would've kept her control feat rather than -stats. Now, I do agree she needed a nerf, and a big one at that, but now there is nothing in return. She is just overall weaker and more straightforward. The non-top tier lists will suffer from the change quite a bit, but I guess design decisions shouldn't be based on casual play.
Personally I really don't mind. I'm more interested in other casters anyway and the nerf itself is good for the health of the game, but I kinda wished for a rework. Deneghra2 is so much more interesting (from a casual standpoint) right now, and I'm wondering who Deneghra1 is for now? Competitive people might consider her, but I feel that's not going to happen.. casuals have a ton of more casters available.
PP once again excercised their cardinal sin - nerfing things in a way that sucks all the fun out of playing them. NPE before nerf, NPE after. Just from different sides of the table. I've said this before, but see Haley1 for recent reference.
Before someone play's the CID-card, I have to say "no". They might still tune her, but not in a way that is necessary. Changes are always mild after the initial concepts.
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Post by Trollock on Nov 3, 2017 7:22:20 GMT
As a non-cryx player, basically all of my brain power the last few months has gone in to making things that work in to Denny GF as well as Coven DH. Allowing units to charge during dennys feat means that melee units might actually get to participate in the game. This in turn means that i might not be forced to bring shooting to handle GF and thus get trounced by DH. It makes it more possible to build one list that has some sort of fighting chance against either list, and that is where basically every other faction in the game works.
Will a melee list suddenly crush Denny GF? NO! Will it have the opportunity to actually play the game? MAYBE. Sounds like a fairly reasonable solution to me.
Im not a super fan about nerfing something in multiple ways at once, so i might have kept scourge for an iteration at least. They nerfed the scenario lock out, and perhaps it was not needed to nerf the assassination potential as well at the same time. Never the less, the assassination still exists and it is still strong. It is just not automatic.
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Nov 3, 2017 12:38:36 GMT
No amount of Turd polishing skills is going to help Deneghra1 as she is. She no longer has a place in competitive builds. She no longer wins the Ghost Fleet mirror match against Asphyxious1, Terminus, or the new Deneghra2. They all out Attrition her thanks to RFP spells, and she’s lost her ability to effectively assassinate any of them. She no longer wins vs Coven, as she’s just going to get controlled off the board. Thanks to Satyxis Changes Cryx no longer as any caster independent RFP that works on undead outside of Darragh & Ragman. You now need an RFP caster or Coven to take down Ghost Fleet. So Cryx’s best answer to Ghost Fleet is now Ghost Fleet, and Deneghra1 Ghost Fleet now loses to the other top 4 Ghost Fleet Casters. Deneghra1 was seeing 0play in anything other than Ghost Fleet before a nerf, there’s nothing to suggest that’s going to change. There’s no room for Deneghra1 in a pairing anymore. So the most powerful caster in the game is not ZOMG anymore? Seems good for the health of the game. |
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Post by Cryptix on Nov 3, 2017 13:45:57 GMT
I think the problem is less that she's no longer soul-crunching and more that without that part of the feat there's not really anything that separates her from other casters.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Nov 3, 2017 14:51:55 GMT
So maybe she doesn't make Ghost fleet broken anymore. What's wrong with a Mat 8 pow 18 weapon master Bane warrior??
What about Black industries. Her feat and spell list take care of melee forces and carapace really hampers shooting. Plus she gets free arc nodes.
I mean there are still options. But maybe, just maybe, she doesn't dominate the competitive scene 7 out 10 games. [/generalization]
But again, even if you have some titled excuse against it, post feedback to the CID. That's what it is there for. Any aversion to it is literally counter productive. "If you do't vote, you have no right to complain"
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Post by oncomingstorm on Nov 3, 2017 20:31:28 GMT
No amount of Turd polishing skills is going to help Deneghra1 as she is. She no longer has a place in competitive builds. She no longer wins the Ghost Fleet mirror match against Asphyxious1, Terminus, or the new Deneghra2. They all out Attrition her thanks to RFP spells, and she’s lost her ability to effectively assassinate any of them. She no longer wins vs Coven, as she’s just going to get controlled off the board. Thanks to Satyxis Changes Cryx no longer as any caster independent RFP that works on undead outside of Darragh & Ragman. You now need an RFP caster or Coven to take down Ghost Fleet. So Cryx’s best answer to Ghost Fleet is now Ghost Fleet, and Deneghra1 Ghost Fleet now loses to the other top 4 Ghost Fleet Casters. Deneghra1 was seeing 0play in anything other than Ghost Fleet before a nerf, there’s nothing to suggest that’s going to change. There’s no room for Deneghra1 in a pairing anymore. All that this post really shows is that ghost fleet is a degenerate list, whoever is running it. If even Cryx is building pairings largely based on their ability to play into ghost fleet, the meta is in a REALLY bad spot. |
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Nov 3, 2017 22:38:52 GMT
No amount of Turd polishing skills is going to help Deneghra1 as she is. She no longer has a place in competitive builds. She no longer wins the Ghost Fleet mirror match against Asphyxious1, Terminus, or the new Deneghra2. They all out Attrition her thanks to RFP spells, and she’s lost her ability to effectively assassinate any of them. She no longer wins vs Coven, as she’s just going to get controlled off the board. Thanks to Satyxis Changes Cryx no longer as any caster independent RFP that works on undead outside of Darragh & Ragman. You now need an RFP caster or Coven to take down Ghost Fleet. So Cryx’s best answer to Ghost Fleet is now Ghost Fleet, and Deneghra1 Ghost Fleet now loses to the other top 4 Ghost Fleet Casters. Deneghra1 was seeing 0play in anything other than Ghost Fleet before a nerf, there’s nothing to suggest that’s going to change. There’s no room for Deneghra1 in a pairing anymore. All that this post really shows is that ghost fleet is a degenerate list, whoever is running it. If even Cryx is building pairings largely based on their ability to play into ghost fleet, the meta is in a REALLY bad spot. That's a bit of hyperbole. Both Denny2 infernal machines or black industries are very good counters to Ghost Fleet and if the new CID leaves "sucker" on the Priestess the ghost shot assassination trick will go away too in any theme that allows her. I'm actually kind of happy the Gore3 is now the official ghost shot assassination caster. His feat and playstyle are a lot more fun than Denny1's. |
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Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
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Post by Kavrae on Nov 4, 2017 0:50:41 GMT
All that this post really shows is that ghost fleet is a degenerate list, whoever is running it. If even Cryx is building pairings largely based on their ability to play into ghost fleet, the meta is in a REALLY bad spot. That's a bit of hyperbole. Both Denny2 infernal machines or black industries are very good counters to Ghost Fleet and if the new CID leaves "sucker" on the Priestess the ghost shot assassination trick will go away too in any theme that allows her. I'm actually kind of happy the Gore3 is now the official ghost shot assassination caster. His feat and playstyle are a lot more fun than Denny1's. Funny thing. I just finished up my Goreshade3 to run the ghost fleet just a few days before the CID hit. I never really cared for playing Deneghra1 and wanted someone both more fun and more thematic. |
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