unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Nov 7, 2017 12:59:17 GMT
Meh, she's always been boring.
Let the new Skarre through, let Severa brokentide through, let my new beloved Denny2 through, leave my beloved Coven in peace, and the wolves can devour Denny1 for all i care. Let the whiners get Denny1 nerfed to MKIII-release-Gaspy2 levels if it means they leave the rest of our toys in peace. She's a sacrifice I'm more than willing to make.
-und_ed
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Nov 8, 2017 14:24:43 GMT
Meh, she's always been boring. Let the new Skarre through, let Severa brokentide through, let my new beloved Denny2 through, leave my beloved Coven in peace, and the wolves can devour Denny1 for all i care. Let the whiners get Denny1 nerfed to MKIII-release-Gaspy2 levels if it means they leave the rest of our toys in peace. She's a sacrifice I'm more than willing to make. -und_ed those things you're listing aren't above question though. They still have a ton of power that needs a lot more evaluation. You cannot make the argument "Fix one thing but leave everything else unbalanced."
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Post by Cryptix on Nov 8, 2017 14:43:20 GMT
Meh, she's always been boring. Let the new Skarre through, let Severa brokentide through, let my new beloved Denny2 through, leave my beloved Coven in peace, and the wolves can devour Denny1 for all i care. Let the whiners get Denny1 nerfed to MKIII-release-Gaspy2 levels if it means they leave the rest of our toys in peace. She's a sacrifice I'm more than willing to make. -und_ed those things you're listing aren't above question though. They still have a ton of power that needs a lot more evaluation. You cannot make the argument "Fix one thing but leave everything else unbalanced." Clearly you've never heard of the term "scapegoat" . Please let it be clear that I'm joking...
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marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
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Post by marke on Nov 8, 2017 17:08:51 GMT
Joking aside, that might be what's happening here. I'm a (non-competitive) Cryx player, but so far I see nothing from the devs hinting towards Cryx becoming less of an issue. Quite the contrary actually..
So far it looks like their power level will stay, or even increase, but let's see.
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Post by tiberius on Nov 8, 2017 17:55:47 GMT
Well in order to keep up with our existing themes, they had to release some things that were comparable for the other themes. I mean bringing bloodgorgers up to the same standard as banes is a tall order. How do you do that? It has to appeal to people to want to play them and buy the models and they wont do that if they cant compete. They will just stick with what they have.
I am a casual player and I personally do like the themes because they allow me to play with more of my stuff at the same time. And I always played with a "theme" anyhow. Today is no dyx cryx, or today is all pirates day, or today is all the mechanithralls. You get the idea. These themes pretty much fit with how I normally play anyhow.
What did the themes do or CID do that but banes and revenants over the top? At the beginning of MKIII, Cryx was in the solid middle to bottom and a lot of people jumped ship because we couldn't compete with the warjack spam and all the anti infantry, and gun lines running amok. The bane theme added 2 clouds, prowl for banes and a free solo or two. So great against gun lines that cannot ignore clouds and stealth. The revenant theme did absolutely nothing other than make people try the revenents. I think the unit got a point cheaper, you get 2-3 solos for free, +1 on recursion rolls. That's it?
The real problem is that there are too many questions being asked in a tournament, Heavy armor jack spam, gun lines, fast melee armies, or dude swarm. You get two lists and probably cover 2-3 of those. People complain when they build against cygnar and khador and then get stomped by Cryx dude spam. Now they build against cryx dude spam, but we have too many types of dudes, is the incorporeal/recursion list or the stealthy weapon master list?
Cryx casters are powerful, sure, but why were they not oppressive at the beginning of MKIII? What has changed? I mean Denny has pretty much been the same caster since MKI and has rode to now without any meaningful nerfs. And she was not who was typically carrying the faction. I agree, she is a very powerful caster and has some big weaknesses that require you to know what you are doing or you die. Or are we just that sensitive now to any hit above or below the average line?
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Nov 8, 2017 18:01:26 GMT
Well in order to keep up with our existing themes, they had to release some things that were comparable for the other themes. I mean bringing bloodgorgers up to the same standard as banes is a tall order. How do you do that? It has to appeal to people to want to play them and buy the models and they wont do that if they cant compete. They will just stick with what they have. I am a casual player and I personally do like the themes because they allow me to play with more of my stuff at the same time. And I always played with a "theme" anyhow. Today is no dyx cryx, or today is all pirates day, or today is all the mechanithralls. You get the idea. These themes pretty much fit with how I normally play anyhow. What did the themes do or CID do that but banes and revenants over the top? At the beginning of MKIII, Cryx was in the solid middle to bottom and a lot of people jumped ship because we couldn't compete with the warjack spam and all the anti infantry, and gun lines running amok. The bane theme added 2 clouds, prowl for banes and a free solo or two. So great against gun lines that cannot ignore clouds and stealth. The revenant theme did absolutely nothing other than make people try the revenents. I think the unit got a point cheaper, you get 2-3 solos for free, +1 on recursion rolls. That's it? The real problem is that there are too many questions being asked in a tournament, Heavy armor jack spam, gun lines, fast melee armies, or dude swarm. You get two lists and probably cover 2-3 of those. People complain when they build against cygnar and khador and then get stomped by Cryx dude spam. Now they build against cryx dude spam, but we have too many types of dudes, is the incorporeal/recursion list or the stealthy weapon master list? Cryx casters are powerful, sure, but why were they not oppressive at the beginning of MKIII? What has changed? I mean Denny has pretty much been the same caster since MKI and has rode to now without any meaningful nerfs. And she was not who was typically carrying the faction. I agree, she is a very powerful caster and has some big weaknesses that require you to know what you are doing or you die. Or are we just that sensitive now to any hit above or below the average line? The big thing that changed is that Cryx gained options into low pow infantry hate. Knights and Riders can get up to arm 20 against guns and Black Industries means that your jacks don't all have their arms dangling off by the time they get where they need to be. My meta figured out Cryx pretty early on and it was pretty frustrating. When the changes started trickling out it much more balanced (from a Cryx player's perspective).
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Post by tiberius on Nov 8, 2017 18:48:18 GMT
I think that was the point I was trying to make with my wall of text, you said it much more succinctly npe. And that is Cryx has lots of options that have to compete with each other from a developers stand point. Because if you are taking dark host, you are not playing ghost fleet, or black industries, or whatever. I guess you have two lists, so you are playing any two of our 6 options. And each one brings something vastly different in the form of questions for your opponent. Can they deal with anti-range banes? What about defensive skew satyxis? What about tough medium bases and jacks with gang fighter? What about incorporeal and recursion? What about super cheap spam? Each theme has something different, some overlap, but each has its own feel and strengths. No unit can be taken in more than one with the exception of the cephalyx, but there are better options usually.
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