ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Oct 19, 2017 12:26:57 GMT
Primal rage states: on enemy damage, full advance towards attacking model and make one basic attack. So here is my reasoning: lets say I suffer damage from a ranged attack, I advance and then hit a totally different model with a melee attack. Is this possible. The rule does not state that I have to hit the attacking model. And lets say I have return fire up on mulg. I first resolve the primal rage, so I hit a model, then resolve return fire. Hit the model again. Do i now get 2 basic attacks for free
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tomw
Junior Strategist
Posts: 128
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Post by tomw on Oct 19, 2017 12:31:36 GMT
Wow that’s nasty! I seem to remember that part of the reason they gave him primal rage instead of retaliatory strike is so that he could hit things other than the thing that just hit him, so that part of the plan checks out.
The second part I’m not so sure about- I’m assuming that you get to choose the order the effects resolve, so can do both.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 19, 2017 12:39:09 GMT
Not "for free" haha. You still have to cast return fire on mulg AND mulg is (edit)22* points haha.
Mulg is a monster for sure. But he should be for his points cost haha.
The same applies to borka 2. He can countercharge, and primal rage something. Hitting it twice!
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Oct 19, 2017 13:01:14 GMT
Mulg is 22 points And yes I have to cast return fire. But mulg in my grim1 list threats 11 - 13 inches and should be the focus of some fire. Is a nasty suprise if you hit him with a ranged attack, I move in melee with another model, attack it twice and hope I am still in melee so iam def 14 all at once Or i have just mulged a light model
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Post by tiberius on Oct 19, 2017 13:36:47 GMT
There are past instances of rules not providing more than 1 free attack. For example, berserk and black spot in cryx, I am pretty sure that you can get either the black spot attack or the berserk attack, as both proc off killing something but you cannot get both. If that ruling has changed, please let me know.
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Post by Trollock on Oct 19, 2017 14:22:33 GMT
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Oct 19, 2017 23:00:05 GMT
Holy crap, two different Destroyers of Worlds said that this interpretation is legit. It's not a judge, but it's good enough for me.
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Post by Trollock on Oct 20, 2017 5:55:20 GMT
One can generally trust Larnu on rules issues. Apparently the restriction on triggering multiple instances of extra attacks only applies if you use an attack to trigger the ability. So you cant stack berserk and black spot, but you CAN stack Return Fire and Primal Rage
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Oct 20, 2017 9:15:05 GMT
What in the rules would actually support that? Berserk and black spot trigger on destroyed and are resolved directly after the attack. Primal rage and return fire trigger on enemey hits, primal rage immediately after the enemy attack is resolved, return fire just after.
Does that mean return fire can trigger "some time soon after", because the only difference I see is triggering off hits vs destroyed, and triggering after vs triggering immediately after.
I don't think hits as opposed to destroyed is what makes the difference here. Black spot and berserk would have to resolved simultaneously, which I don't think the rules allow for and therefor they don't stack. Maybe that isn't the case for primal rage and return fire, because of the wording for return fire? Primal rage has to be resolved before return then.
On a sidenote: while the primal rage attack can be aimed at anyone, the move still goes towards the attacker. Makes stacking the two a good deal harder.
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Post by Trollock on Oct 20, 2017 10:56:59 GMT
Return Fire triggers when you are hit
Primal Rage triggers you suffer damage
Both resolve "after the attack is resolved"
If two of your abilities resolve at the same time, you get to chose what order to resolve them, so you chose to have Primal Rage trigger first, so you can advance before the attack. After you have resolved Primal Rage, you can resolve Return Fire.
Also, you have to advance towards (not directly towards) the model that damaged you, and that leaves a lot of room to go pretty much where ever you want (just not further away from the shooter).
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Oct 20, 2017 11:40:02 GMT
its cool to have, but did not came up in my game yesterday. It might someday
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Post by tiberius on Oct 20, 2017 11:45:01 GMT
Wow, time to break out Mulg! Well at least I am glad to know I wasn't smoking the really good stuff when I made the analogy about Black Spot and Berserk. So the triggers are different on return fire and Primal Rage which is why they both get to go off. Got it.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 20, 2017 12:56:33 GMT
Return Fire triggers when you are hit
Primal Rage triggers you suffer damage
Both resolve " after the attack is resolved" If two of your abilities resolve at the same time, you get to chose what order to resolve them, so you chose to have Primal Rage trigger first, so you can advance before the attack. After you have resolved Primal Rage, you can resolve Return Fire. Also, you have to advance towards (not directly towards) the model that damaged you, and that leaves a lot of room to go pretty much where ever you want (just not further away from the shooter). Holy cow mulg is amazing.... the towards is a really good catch Trollock, that changes the abilities utility greatly! Imaging countercharging something, crit smiting it away and then using primal walk deep into the enemies lines and hit something else haha.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Oct 20, 2017 13:20:35 GMT
If two of your abilities resolve at the same time, you get to chose what order to resolve them, so you chose to have Primal Rage trigger first, so you can advance before the attack. After you have resolved Primal Rage, you can resolve Return Fire. . Then what stops berserk and black spot from stacking?
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Oct 20, 2017 15:04:45 GMT
If two of your abilities resolve at the same time, you get to chose what order to resolve them, so you chose to have Primal Rage trigger first, so you can advance before the attack. After you have resolved Primal Rage, you can resolve Return Fire. . Then what stops berserk and black spot from stacking? They have the same trigger. Apparently only one ability can be triggered by a given event, but that is my inference from reading the thread, so take it with a grain of salt.
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