A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Dec 7, 2017 18:36:14 GMT
"Stuff & Things" though i can not remember if the required movement was just slightly over 4 or if it was larger than 5. Doing some quick CAD diagrams it looks like Mulg would be about 1/16" shy of getting into a back arc with his 4" advance. This is assuming Heavy on Heavy, and an infinitesimally small gap between Mulg and the aggressor. So a 1" speed bump will definitely do the trick. If the aggressor charges to 1" range, you'd still need 5" to get into the back arc. The 1" separation allows you to move in a more efficient path.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 7, 2017 20:16:34 GMT
"Stuff & Things" though i can not remember if the required movement was just slightly over 4 or if it was larger than 5. Doing some quick CAD diagrams it looks like Mulg would be about 1/16" shy of getting into a back arc with his 4" advance. This is assuming Heavy on Heavy, and an infinitesimally small gap between Mulg and the aggressor. So a 1" speed bump will definitely do the trick. If the aggressor charges to 1" range, you'd still need 5" to get into the back arc. The 1" separation allows you to move in a more efficient path. What's the distance / is it possible to do with half inch segments?
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Dec 7, 2017 21:22:28 GMT
I basically measured it with arcs measured through the center line of Mulg's base, so it's about as efficient of a path as possible. Diagram attached in case anyone is interested.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 7, 2017 21:36:20 GMT
Yes, I'm asking about less efficient but provable beyond a complainer's doubt measurements.
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Dec 7, 2017 22:12:16 GMT
Yes, I'm asking about less efficient but provable beyond a complainer's doubt measurements. Ah yes, that makes more sense. Stand by, I'll make a better diagram for the non-believers
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Dec 7, 2017 22:41:10 GMT
Updated Diagram. One for continuous movement along a curve and one in 1/2" straight increments. The 1/2" diagram aint pretty, but it will work. I also tweaked the continuous path since Mulg can go straight when he gets side by side with his attacker.
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Post by deviantcad on Dec 8, 2017 1:01:31 GMT
I'm just picturing someone at PP seeing this and thinking " Mulg can never be allowed to be speed 5 on the opponents turn now."
Thanks for taking the time to make that.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 8, 2017 1:27:38 GMT
I'm just picturing someone at PP seeing this and thinking " Mulg can never be allowed to be speed 5 on the opponents turn now." Thanks for taking the time to make that. I mean you can still trigger Primal Rage on Defensive Strike, Retaliatory Strike, Riposte and Countercharge - probably missing a couple of other effects as well. Kinda amusing for Doom2 feat turn - mulg runs around behind their warcaster / warlockafter they hit him back praying on a broken aspect to save them.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 8, 2017 6:45:25 GMT
Updated Diagram. One for continuous movement along a curve and one in 1/2" straight increments. The 1/2" diagram aint pretty, but it will work. I also tweaked the continuous path since Mulg can go straight when he gets side by side with his attacker. These drawings are not really legal though. You are not allowed to move away from the attacker, or along curved lines, or through the attacker. If they are b2b like here, you can not move at all, cause every possible direction will take you away from the attacker. In these pictures, many moves clearly are not "toward" the attacker. If you check my (much more rudimentary) pictures, you will see that each increment takes Mulg closer to the attacker, thus fulfilling the "advance towards" requirement. If you have only a 1/8" margin of error on a 5" move when "cheating" like this, i doubt it will work when you have to follow the "advance towards" requirements. A 6" move can do it though, at least if the attacking model is close enough (closer than 2") but not too close (impossible if b2b). As i said. This is very much a pipe dream, though theoretically possible
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Dec 8, 2017 16:47:55 GMT
Yeah, that it technically correct (the best kind of correct, ha). I mentioned in an earlier post, that you have to assume there is at least an infinitesimally small gap between the model that charged you and Mulg. I meant to put that disclaimer in the diagram, but forgot. Total agreement that the whole thing goes out the window if the model can make it base to base. If Mulg is just out of base to base and you somehow got Mulg up to spd 5", you'd be good to go. So play Grissel2 out of theme? ahahaha!
One scenario I could see coming up is with Admonition from Doomy3 & Primal Rage. Enemy heavy charges Mulg, and triggers Admo. Mulg positions so the tip of his base is just in the front arc, and enough room to Primal Rage into the back arc. Eats the charge attack and Primal Rages as far behind the charging model as possible. Sure you're going to take some damage, but the opponent now has a Mulg alot closer to them.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 8, 2017 19:20:49 GMT
Yeah, that it technically correct (the best kind of correct, ha). I mentioned in an earlier post, that you have to assume there is at least an infinitesimally small gap between the model that charged you and Mulg. I meant to put that disclaimer in the diagram, but forgot. Total agreement that the whole thing goes out the window if the model can make it base to base. If Mulg is just out of base to base and you somehow got Mulg up to spd 5", you'd be good to go. So play Grissel2 out of theme? ahahaha! One scenario I could see coming up is with Admonition from Doomy3 & Primal Rage. Enemy heavy charges Mulg, and triggers Admo. Mulg positions so the tip of his base is just in the front arc, and enough room to Primal Rage into the back arc. Eats the charge attack and Primal Rages as far behind the charging model as possible. Sure you're going to take some damage, but the opponent now has a Mulg alot closer to them. I see. Dash wont work on beasts though...
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Dec 8, 2017 19:44:18 GMT
I see. Dash wont work on beasts though... Well, there goes that then. Hahaha
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Post by deviantcad on Dec 9, 2017 1:05:19 GMT
Sadly Bearka with cold stone is out too as the speed budd only last a turn.
It just seems increasingly corner case. They can't be b2b and you're already taking a charge attack and a free strike. Plus the movement can take you on charge range of something else.
I'm guessing this means the 3" from admontion will never be enough to get around another heavy as well, even with the decreased restrictions on movement.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 9, 2017 14:18:02 GMT
Sadly Bearka with cold stone is out too as the speed budd only last a turn. It just seems increasingly corner case. They can't be b2b and you're already taking a charge attack and a free strike. Plus the movement can take you on charge range of something else. I'm guessing this means the 3" from admontion will never be enough to get around another heavy as well, even with the decreased restrictions on movement. You could just step away outside melee range with admonition though and not have to deal with the whole problem. But if you for some reason wanted to, you could admonition to the side, take the charge hit and then advance behind the attacker. This is probably only good if the extra movement sets you up for an assassination or something next turn Good catch on the NK SPD aura though.
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