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Post by trollquinn on Dec 6, 2017 11:10:35 GMT
If for somereason they don't charge in and position the heavy in a way to easily walk in the back arc then I should have no problem doing so?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Dec 6, 2017 11:13:56 GMT
Note to self, knock Mulg down first
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 6, 2017 12:14:49 GMT
I just realized that Return Fire triggers on being targeted not hit. If the attack misses, you can still use Return Fire after it resolves. Geez, I think I've been playing that wrong the whole time.
So Mulg is in melee with one grunt. The opponent shoots him but misses. Mulg uses Return Fire to eat the grunt. He's back to base DEF so the next shot hits. He is damaged so he walks up to another grunt and eats it. He is further upfield, back in melee with other grunts who can no longer charge him, and he heals 2d3. Seems legit. :D
That also makes Return Fire much better for Grim himself. Watts and Ryan shoot him. After Watts resolves, hit or miss, Grim shoots Ryan dead in one shot, and that's two fewer attacks that he takes.
And, of course, Return Fire is not BG-only. It can go on the battle engines too.
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Post by ninjapete on Dec 6, 2017 16:10:43 GMT
I have a question about mulg and primal rage... let's say a beast charges in ready to kill mulg, damages him and triggers primal rage. Can mulg walk into his back arc? I know he would get hit with a freestrike but wouldn't that be better? If a Colossal or Gargantuan attacks him, you can use it to move fully into the arc they just attacked with thereby avoiding one attack.
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Post by robbleyourworld on Dec 6, 2017 19:00:35 GMT
I have a question about mulg and primal rage... let's say a beast charges in ready to kill mulg, damages him and triggers primal rage. Can mulg walk into his back arc? I know he would get hit with a freestrike but wouldn't that be better? If a Colossal or Gargantuan attacks him, you can use it to move fully into the arc they just attacked with thereby avoiding one attack. If a model charged you there is no way to move in such a way that is towards the model and ends with mulg in their back arc you might be able to do this if they didn't charge so they weren't directly facing mulg. the idea of moving out of a colossal's side arc entertains me greatly
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Dec 6, 2017 23:59:35 GMT
Similar circumstance to why I always try to charge Mulg into only one side of a Colossal when he's got Admonition from Doomy3. Mulg can usually cripple a side. Pretty easy for the opponent to think all they have to do is turn to get Mulg in the working system, only for him to walk away. Definitely not the topic here, but seems like it was close enough to mention.
Plenty of counter play to this strategy, but it's one more piece of the puzzle for an opponent to wade through.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 7, 2017 7:55:16 GMT
If a Colossal or Gargantuan attacks him, you can use it to move fully into the arc they just attacked with thereby avoiding one attack. If a model charged you there is no way to move in such a way that is towards the model and ends with mulg in their back arc you might be able to do this if they didn't charge so they weren't directly facing mulg. the idea of moving out of a colossal's side arc entertains me greatly There is, as long as they did not get to B2B with you. However, the 4" move will not allow you to get in to the back arc of a large base that is directly facing you. A 6" move (mulg with quicken) CAN. Primal Rage requires you to more towards the enemy model. not DIRECTLY towards. You can thus move in a spiral like pattern around it, getting closer and closer all the time, and end up in the back arc. You suffer a free strike, but that will probably do less damage than the remaining attacks of the charging heavy though.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 7, 2017 8:59:05 GMT
If a model charged you there is no way to move in such a way that is towards the model and ends with mulg in their back arc you might be able to do this if they didn't charge so they weren't directly facing mulg. the idea of moving out of a colossal's side arc entertains me greatly There is, as long as they did not get to B2B with you. However, the 4" move will not allow you to get in to the back arc of a large base that is directly facing you. A 6" move (mulg with quicken) CAN. Primal Rage requires you to more towards the enemy model. not DIRECTLY towards. You can thus move in a spiral like pattern around it, getting closer and closer all the time, and end up in the back arc. You suffer a free strike, but that will probably do less damage than the remaining attacks of the charging heavy though. I could be wrong but this sounds incorrect. From my understanding, towards means you must always be moving closer and never further. The best line you can cut would be from the closest point on your base to a point on their base that by drawing a line between the two points would be tangent to their base. That by definition could never be in the back arc, because the only way you could alter the tangent point would be to move AWAY from them.
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Dec 7, 2017 9:38:18 GMT
There is, as long as they did not get to B2B with you. However, the 4" move will not allow you to get in to the back arc of a large base that is directly facing you. A 6" move (mulg with quicken) CAN. Primal Rage requires you to more towards the enemy model. not DIRECTLY towards. You can thus move in a spiral like pattern around it, getting closer and closer all the time, and end up in the back arc. You suffer a free strike, but that will probably do less damage than the remaining attacks of the charging heavy though. I could be wrong but this sounds incorrect. From my understanding, towards means you must always be moving closer and never further. The best line you can cut would be from the closest point on your base to a point on their base that by drawing a line between the two points would be tangent to their base. That by definition could never be in the back arc, because the only way you could alter the tangent point would be to move AWAY from them. Move doesn't have to be one line. If you charge, you are right cos that move have to be straight line.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 7, 2017 12:04:12 GMT
There is, as long as they did not get to B2B with you. However, the 4" move will not allow you to get in to the back arc of a large base that is directly facing you. A 6" move (mulg with quicken) CAN. Primal Rage requires you to more towards the enemy model. not DIRECTLY towards. You can thus move in a spiral like pattern around it, getting closer and closer all the time, and end up in the back arc. You suffer a free strike, but that will probably do less damage than the remaining attacks of the charging heavy though. I could be wrong but this sounds incorrect. From my understanding, towards means you must always be moving closer and never further. The best line you can cut would be from the closest point on your base to a point on their base that by drawing a line between the two points would be tangent to their base. That by definition could never be in the back arc, because the only way you could alter the tangent point would be to move AWAY from them. You move in small (straight) increments. If you move in one straight line, then it would be impossible, but do it in many small steps and it is totally doable. See the attached pic for an attempt at an explanation. Mulg (black ring) moves toward the opponents model in increments (grey rings) and end up in the back arc (red ring). Each move takes him closer and closer (note that the pic may not be exact, but it explains the principle). It does rake more than 4" movement to accomplish this though, so it is only possible with Jarl (quicken) and possibly with Borka 2 (+1 speed from the stone), though i can not remember if the required movement was just slightly over 4 or if it was larger than 5. Attachments:
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 7, 2017 13:12:30 GMT
Also, can't they stop that nonsense just by putting their jack b2b?
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Post by Trollock on Dec 7, 2017 14:16:48 GMT
Also, can't they stop that nonsense just by putting their jack b2b? yes. and there could be models in the way etc. This is mainly a pipe dream tbh
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Post by robbleyourworld on Dec 7, 2017 14:29:35 GMT
I could be wrong but this sounds incorrect. From my understanding, towards means you must always be moving closer and never further. The best line you can cut would be from the closest point on your base to a point on their base that by drawing a line between the two points would be tangent to their base. That by definition could never be in the back arc, because the only way you could alter the tangent point would be to move AWAY from them. You move in small (straight) increments. If you move in one straight line, then it would be impossible, but do it in many small steps and it is totally doable. See the attached pic for an attempt at an explanation. Mulg (black ring) moves toward the opponents model in increments (grey rings) and end up in the back arc (red ring). Each move takes him closer and closer (note that the pic may not be exact, but it explains the principle). It does rake more than 4" movement to accomplish this though, so it is only possible with Jarl (quicken) and possibly with Borka 2 (+1 speed from the stone), though i can not remember if the required movement was just slightly over 4 or if it was larger than 5. Interesting I hadn't thought about doing it this way. I'm going to have to get some steppers for when the argument of if I can do this comes up (mostly I just need an excuse to buy steppers)
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Dec 7, 2017 15:28:41 GMT
Do it! They are amazing.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Dec 7, 2017 16:42:51 GMT
You move in small (straight) increments. If you move in one straight line, then it would be impossible, but do it in many small steps and it is totally doable. See the attached pic for an attempt at an explanation. Mulg (black ring) moves toward the opponents model in increments (grey rings) and end up in the back arc (red ring). Each move takes him closer and closer (note that the pic may not be exact, but it explains the principle). It does rake more than 4" movement to accomplish this though, so it is only possible with Jarl (quicken) and possibly with Borka 2 (+1 speed from the stone), though i can not remember if the required movement was just slightly over 4 or if it was larger than 5. Interesting I hadn't thought about doing it this way. I'm going to have to get some steppers for when the argument of if I can do this comes up (mostly I just need an excuse to buy steppers) Print up a copy of the above diagram, with center dot measurements detailing the decreasing radii. Viola, mathematical proof of cheese!
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