skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Oct 25, 2017 1:46:07 GMT
If you are gonna play double cats just be aware of Scourge of the Broken Coast, the Hags Entropic Force just shuts down Stay Death The original question was GF/DH. That's what I'm teaching for currently. I'm not about to throw another wrench in the works for a theme that's about to hit CiD with an unknown caster all of which hasn't been solved yet. Cross that bridge when I get there.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Oct 25, 2017 2:05:00 GMT
the scarab pack is an interesting choice and I think it's a wise one. Immune to blast damage, not really tanky but it doesn't have to be. They can also run in to engage the revenants. after engaged, they can just whittle down their numbers. With mak1 you also have quicken to speed up the process. I'd personally downgrade the gladiator to a cyclops, remove the legends and perhaps a solo and put in the full cetratii core. It would just be hell for them to outpush the cetratii while toughed, speed shield guarded, and already engaged by the cats and scarabs. If they can't start killing your living models in mass then the entire ghost fleet theme is just nulled. It's actually the reason why our cryx players have been switching to dark host; I'm also pretty sure one is experimenting with infernal machine as well.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Oct 31, 2017 8:12:18 GMT
I got a chance to play MakedaCats into Cryx this weekend. And I am less than optimistic about it. I played into Denny1 with all the Satyxis and it's just as bad as Ghost Fleet. No Incorporeal shenannigans (Recursion doesn't matter in this matchup anyway), but tons of models with quality attacks.
We played Spread the Net, which was an issue in and of itself. However I got to go first, which really helped. T1 both sides moved forward while keeping their casters safe. T2 I feat and go in, killing 17 Satyxis. He feats, kills 7 Cats and some chaff. T3 it all goes way south as I basically can't do anything in his feat. He scores points because he actually has models left on the table and I lose T4 after a desparate Assassination attempt.
My opponent was a really good player. I played reasonably well and rolled like absolute crazy (tough is 80% chance, right???). The game wasn't even remotely close. It was a slaughter. I don't think this is playable, at least with Mak2.
Entropic Force was relevant, but not gamechanging as he got through all the Stay Deaths easily anyway. There were no Stalkers present. They would have made the matchup even worse.
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Post by killroundears on Oct 31, 2017 9:46:59 GMT
I got a chance to play MakedaCats into Cryx this weekend. And I am less than optimistic about it. I played into Denny1 with all the Satyxis and it's just as bad as Ghost Fleet. No Incorporeal shenannigans (Recursion doesn't matter in this matchup anyway), but tons of models with quality attacks. We played Spread the Net, which was an issue in and of itself. However I got to go first, which really helped. T1 both sides moved forward while keeping their casters safe. T2 I feat and go in, killing 17 Satyxis. He feats, kills 7 Cats and some chaff. T3 it all goes way south as I basically can't do anything in his feat. He scores points because he actually has models left on the table and I lose T4 after a desparate Assassination attempt. My opponent was a really good player. I played reasonably well and rolled like absolute crazy (tough is 80% chance, right???). The game wasn't even remotely close. It was a slaughter. I don't think this is playable, at least with Mak2. Entropic Force was relevant, but not gamechanging as he got through all the Stay Deaths easily anyway. There were no Stalkers present. They would have made the matchup even worse. Another skorne player suggested that the following list might be the anti cryx tech: Xerxis, Fury of Halaak + 28 - Basilisk Drake - 8 - Basilisk Drake - 8 - Basilisk Drake - 8 - Basilisk Drake - 8 - Basilisk Drake - 8 - Basilisk Drake - 8 - Basilisk Drake - 8 - Basilisk Krea - 0 - Basilisk Krea - 0 - Basilisk Krea - 0 Siege Animantarax - 17 Siege Animantarax - 17 Swamp Gobber Chef - 1 Paingiver Beasthandlers min - 5 Paingiver Beasthandlers max - 7 Cryx jacks can't really survive the sprays. the sprays are all magic, the kreas are weaponmasters with the drake support. the turtles are self explanatory. if denny is close enough to feat on you, the drakes are close enough to spray her. There's no good target for crippling grasp since it can at best, affect one model out of the army. meh. the rest will do just fine. Shooting is a non issue with 3 kreas
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Oct 31, 2017 9:50:00 GMT
Because cryx I feel like you need a way to remove upkeeps. I would drop 3 drakes and the chef for 2 X shaman + raider
Attacks are still magic you get upkeep removal and with snipe you can spot remove stuff if you need to
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Post by killroundears on Oct 31, 2017 9:52:30 GMT
Because cryx I feel like you need a way to remove upkeeps. I would drop 3 drakes and the chef for 2 X shaman + raider Attacks are still magic you get upkeep removal and with snipe you can spot remove stuff if you need to what upkeeps are scary to that many expendable drakes? EDIT: i should elaborate - i just think the majority of the list is rather expendable, its not my list but i really do like it. like, 16" spray threat on the drakes. Sure shamans can remove something from further away but the drakes just kinda kill ALL the infantry and solos under the feat. its a crippling alpha strike. Kreas can flatline defense of models like denny too so she has to be super careful. biggest weakness is the wraith engine that things kinda hard to deal with. maybe when the old minion solo with guidance becomes available the derp turtles with magic weapons + ignite can wreck its face
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Oct 31, 2017 12:16:11 GMT
Any reason not to go full skew? conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0Ley4v4v4v4v4v4v4v4v4v4v4v4v4x4x4x5VSkorne Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Imperial Warhost (Xerxis 2) Xerxis, Fury of Halaak [+28] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Krea [0(7)] - Basilisk Krea [0(7)] - Basilisk Krea [0(7)] Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Oct 31, 2017 12:53:33 GMT
I really like the list idea and I have played the turtles enough to know they are going to be awesome on feat turn. Imperial host's main weaknesses are volume of attacks and magic weapons. You have solved both and the krea becomes a game piece that can actually get work done. I like the idea a lot. what upkeeps are scary to that many expendable drakes? None but crippling grasp on a turtle will ruin your feat. EDIT: i should elaborate - i just think the majority of the list is rather expendable, its not my list but i really do like it. Except the turtles you need the turtles to be functional on your feat turn. biggest weakness is the wraith engine that things kinda hard to deal with. maybe when the old minion solo with guidance becomes available the derp turtles with magic weapons + ignite can wreck its face You could ignite and enrage a shaman still not a great way of dealing with the wraith engine. Once the CID drops if spiny growth goes down to 1 fury I wonder if xerxis2 wants a rhinodon in his list. That seems to change this list a bunch not sure how I feel about it. The list is going to produce a huge amount of fury and I am not sure the best way to deal with that either. Any reason not to go full skew? Yes the Siege Animantarax. There is absolutely no better way to spend 34 points in war host. This is not hyperbolic, they really are that good. Overall getting the turtles and drakes under xerxis2's feat feels worth running the list.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Oct 31, 2017 13:10:05 GMT
Yes I know they're good, but they're not really helping your game plan, are they?
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Oct 31, 2017 13:17:57 GMT
Power wins games. They are a game plan by themselves? Xerxis2's feat makes them monsters? I don't understand why you would ever make a war host list without 2 in there.
You open the list to more fury problems, armor cracking issues, and resiliency issues. I don't get why you want more drakes other than MORE DRAKES. You will need to explain this to me.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Oct 31, 2017 19:37:58 GMT
*yawns* Drakes can't crack heavy armor, this is true. They can nickel and dime it, but they won't be able to do any serious damage like they would be able to if you played an actual imperial warhost styled list (a titan brick with support models). However, this is about if a Crazy Cat Lady list is the answer to, specifically, ghost fleet. The answer we have come to is:
"Mak2 double kitty can out maneuver ghost fleet. However, when you put a caster like Denny in the lead, the cats will die too fast, giving them a strict advantage on scenario."
If you'd like to discuss how to best run imperial warhost, please do so in a topic listed for imperial warhost x.O; The least you could do is focus the conversation on answering ghostfleet, which possesses no high armored models and can decimate bricks using scenario. You can't trample medium based models, thus all they have to do is put some cheep jacks in back to counter. MoW negates rebound and tough through RfP, so coming up with a masters list is probably the best way to counter it. Personally, I'd like to get a 2 inch thresher in there to allow for zone clearing and better contesting. I'd also like to minimize the number of models that can be killed through the cannon, as it is the only way for them to accumulate over the max number they start with. Perhaps use an arcidon as a sacrifice piece to take out the cannon?
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Oct 31, 2017 20:17:08 GMT
focus the conversation on answering ghostfleet, which possesses no high armored models your locals don't run the wraith engine in ghost fleet? What does their list look like then sorry all my locals run the wraith engine.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Oct 31, 2017 21:28:01 GMT
ooo armor 18 with 25 boxes!!! *gasp* -.- 14 + 2 dice equals an average of around 20-21. Def 12 doesn't even need boosted rolls on most hits so you're looking at a single beast with magical weapons tearing it appart like it's made of paper. Hell, rhadiem with storm rager could do it plenty well enough. 18/2 = 9. Rhadiem goes up to 14 from storm rager meaning he's on +5 to start with. On the charge he's got 3 dice giving him an average of 14 boxes and a max of 23. With an extoller soulward on the board you can use it on just about any other solo to go for a finisher. This is the reason why, in my meta, they tend to run them in 2s.
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Post by killroundears on Nov 1, 2017 0:00:05 GMT
*yawns* Drakes can't crack heavy armor, this is true. They can nickel and dime it, but they won't be able to do any serious damage like they would be able to if you played an actual imperial warhost styled list (a titan brick with support models). However, this is about if a Crazy Cat Lady list is the answer to, specifically, ghost fleet. The answer we have come to is: "Mak2 double kitty can out maneuver ghost fleet. However, when you put a caster like Denny in the lead, the cats will die too fast, giving them a strict advantage on scenario." If you'd like to discuss how to best run imperial warhost, please do so in a topic listed for imperial warhost x.O; The least you could do is focus the conversation on answering ghostfleet, which possesses no high armored models and can decimate bricks using scenario. You can't trample medium based models, thus all they have to do is put some cheep jacks in back to counter. MoW negates rebound and tough through RfP, so coming up with a masters list is probably the best way to counter it. Personally, I'd like to get a 2 inch thresher in there to allow for zone clearing and better contesting. I'd also like to minimize the number of models that can be killed through the cannon, as it is the only way for them to accumulate over the max number they start with. Perhaps use an arcidon as a sacrifice piece to take out the cannon? i think more valuable to the conversation is answering both of cryx's common drops, because skorne needs to do that. the topic is also titled "Is mak2 cats in MoW answer to GF/DH?" not "is mak2 cats the answer to GF" i still think mak2 cats is to be run in the list pair. But xerxis2 drakes has inherently less problems answering either cryx drop. even the fact that denny's feat prevents jumping (due to preventing charges explicitly) is really bad for the kitties. Not so much for a horde of drakes with boostable guns that ignore incorp, stealth, concealment and cover. Fury is a problem but the drakes are expendable so it doesn't really matter if a couple frenzy / die after delivering the alpha. The turtles + surviving drakes will be waiting i think denny has too much of an advantage over the cats, and would not put her as a caster who can win vs GF/DH with at least a 50/50 win rate
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hoksune
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 5
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Post by hoksune on Nov 1, 2017 1:57:27 GMT
ooo armor 18 with 25 boxes!!! *gasp* -.- 14 + 2 dice equals an average of around 20-21. Def 12 doesn't even need boosted rolls on most hits so you're looking at a single beast with magical weapons tearing it appart like it's made of paper. Hell, rhadiem with storm rager could do it plenty well enough. 18/2 = 9. Rhadiem goes up to 14 from storm rager meaning he's on +5 to start with. On the charge he's got 3 dice giving him an average of 14 boxes and a max of 23. With an extoller soulward on the board you can use it on just about any other solo to go for a finisher. This is the reason why, in my meta, they tend to run them in 2s. It's stuff like this that makes me not take anything you say seriously. It's like holes in basic knowledge. For example, when you talked about GF manoeuvring to protect their cannons and other things like that. I wonder what pedigree of GF you are playing against and drawing conclusions from, which you then preach to people as facts, or at least useful anecdotes. I don't want to be personal but your lack of contribution to a thread beyond post count is grating. Anyway, the Engine is Arm 20 vs guns. Not that I think it's a huge deal, if it wants to do anything vs the Drake Spam it will eventually end up dead, but it is something of a pain to shoot off the table. Having tried the matchup once vs Ghost Fleet with Makeda I do not think it is good. The positioning game is on an absolute knife's edge, but Deneghra can hold back her stalkers until Makeda commits and that usually creates a swing turn so brutal it's difficult to recover from. Also things like actually killing all of the Blackbanes and the Engine are, as outlined, irritating. Especially when the Blackbanes light your models on fire or turn them into more Blackbanes (forcing out Stay Death potentially on models which are alight, which feels terrible). I think Makeda's best out from the game I have played is killing Deneghra but other lists in faction do that better. I suppose it's also worth noting that I have played a 2nd game against GF but against a substantially poorer player who let me alpha him with 8 cats and RFP an overwhelming number of infantry (I think 13?) and a Stalker. But I don't think that is a fair game to draw conclusions from, I felt horrendously unfavoured against a better player.
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