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Post by gedditoffme on Oct 12, 2017 17:57:41 GMT
I find it concerning that one of the best mk2 colossal has been so forgotten it hasn't even been mentioned in this thread (even by people listing every faction)
The Galleon is still ok I think, but more expensive than he was. even worse all merc heavies came to mk3 with a pretty big pts decrease and look a lot more tempting. Would be nice for galleon to get a 2-3pt decrease.
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Post by welshhoppo on Oct 12, 2017 19:05:55 GMT
I suspect the answer lies in the realm of Dual Attack. Many gargantuans and colossals are not significantly more damaging in melee than a heavy from the same faction (this is even more obvious in Hordes, where heavy warbeasts tend to do more damage in melee than their warjack counterparts). The result of this is that once the battle lines engage the limited output of a gargantuan or colossal (compared to two or three heavies) becomes more apparent. I don't think 12 attacks is the answer, and I'm not even sure handing out Dual Attack to everyone would be good. But if I'm feeling uncharitable gargantuans and colossals are just heavies with Slightly higher quality attacks and more boxes. And I feel like giving them more chances to contribute to the game are the way to go. I think the majority of gargossals should have dual attack. That would help them out a lot. As for Khador. I like the Conquest, he's pretty good. Victor needs new nipple guns And a redesign on the big cannon. It can't hit for toffee, make it Pow20. And increase the rat. And remove the minimum range. And additional damage if your opponent breathes oxygen. And free charges against non khador models. Just kidding, but it still needs a rework.
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SeBM
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by SeBM on Oct 12, 2017 19:20:41 GMT
Retribution is blessed with 2 very good colossals. That being said, there are some frustrating things concerning Hyperion. When you pay 36 points for a model, getting a random number of shots from the secondary guns is pretty lame when some other colossals have a fixed number of shots.
I can understand a 14 points heavy like a Manticore having a random number of shots, but a 36 points colossal shouldn't be so random.
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Post by chillychinaman on Oct 12, 2017 20:11:58 GMT
Retribution is blessed with 2 very good colossals. That being said, there are some frustrating things concerning Hyperion. When you pay 36 points for a model, getting a random number of shots from the secondary guns is pretty lame when some other colossals have a fixed number of shots. Just want to say that the Archangel's only, primary gun is d3+1.
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SeBM
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by SeBM on Oct 12, 2017 23:58:28 GMT
The primary gun on the AA is better than the secondaries on Hyperion but it shouldn't be this way either.
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Post by Demeritus on Oct 13, 2017 1:04:24 GMT
As far as Retribution goes, I think Helios is in a decent enough spot, Hyperion could use some tweaks. I personally feel like Colossals and Gargantuans in general need a few tweaks overall, as I do not quite think they have hit the sweet spot of feeling like they are worth 3-4 warjacks/warbeasts.
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Post by beardmonk on Oct 13, 2017 8:02:37 GMT
I don't think that Garglossals urgently need a CID in the way other elements of the game and factions need.
TBH id like to see a schedule of planned CIDs so the community can gauge when issues may or may not be fixed and plan accordingly.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 13, 2017 20:14:14 GMT
I don't think that Garglossals urgently need a CID in the way other elements of the game and factions need. TBH id like to see a schedule of planned CIDs so the community can gauge when issues may or may not be fixed and plan accordingly. I think all new CiD's will be based off of new releases so I doubt we will get a schedule as it will spoil new releases :/
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Oct 13, 2017 21:38:48 GMT
I would love for the Stormwall secondaries to be Pow 12s again...
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Oct 14, 2017 12:59:49 GMT
I've been thinking and I honestly don't think that enough Colossals need to go through CID. I think that the ones that do can be included with other items instead.
I can't really comment about Gargantuans as I don't play against a lot of hordes factions at the moment.
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Post by sgregorbmmd on Oct 15, 2017 12:07:06 GMT
I wouldn't mind fielding my earthbreaker again...
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Oct 15, 2017 20:46:13 GMT
Late to the party, but a couple things stand out from the thread. Outside of MK/GK, few of them see the table, aside from in specific lists (Baldur2 WW). The complaint about them simply not being worth their points compared to two heavies is old, and still not resolved. The various fixes proposed, namely increased Fury, have been looked at before and rightly critiqued. Personally, I think the Dual Attack suggestion is a good starting point; you're always paying for a useful gun on a strong melee chassis and a lot of boxes. The boxes are never enough though to prevent being one-rounded, meaning you need to pull a lot of value with you when you send it in to melee. Dual Attack would help.
About the Dracodile specifically. I have a Mammoth I don't field anymore. Three melee initials, an Assault shot, 5 Fury, and usually free charges. Sure, there are differences like a better gun effect on the Dracodile and animus, better in faction support for the Mammoth. In the end, it's a very similar model (as far as the whinging is concerned) that never sees the table these days. In fact, Dracodile has a better chance of landing in a Skorne list, at least in DoA. I don't see an overpowered model if it compares closely to another that doesn't get play much anymore.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Oct 16, 2017 4:48:47 GMT
Late to the party, but a couple things stand out from the thread. Outside of MK/GK, few of them see the table, aside from in specific lists (Baldur2 WW). The complaint about them simply not being worth their points compared to two heavies is old, and still not resolved. The various fixes proposed, namely increased Fury, have been looked at before and rightly critiqued. Personally, I think the Dual Attack suggestion is a good starting point; you're always paying for a useful gun on a strong melee chassis and a lot of boxes. The boxes are never enough though to prevent being one-rounded, meaning you need to pull a lot of value with you when you send it in to melee. Dual Attack would help. About the Dracodile specifically. I have a Mammoth I don't field anymore. Three melee initials, an Assault shot, 5 Fury, and usually free charges. Sure, there are differences like a better gun effect on the Dracodile and animus, better in faction support for the Mammoth. In the end, it's a very similar model (as far as the whinging is concerned) that never sees the table these days. In fact, Dracodile has a better chance of landing in a Skorne list, at least in DoA. I don't see an overpowered model if it compares closely to another that doesn't get play much anymore. The dracodile and the mammoth have exactly the same faction support being that they are in the same faction.
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Post by elladan52 on Oct 16, 2017 13:23:57 GMT
Late to the party, but a couple things stand out from the thread. Outside of MK/GK, few of them see the table, aside from in specific lists (Baldur2 WW). The complaint about them simply not being worth their points compared to two heavies is old, and still not resolved. The various fixes proposed, namely increased Fury, have been looked at before and rightly critiqued. Personally, I think the Dual Attack suggestion is a good starting point; you're always paying for a useful gun on a strong melee chassis and a lot of boxes. The boxes are never enough though to prevent being one-rounded, meaning you need to pull a lot of value with you when you send it in to melee. Dual Attack would help. About the Dracodile specifically. I have a Mammoth I don't field anymore. Three melee initials, an Assault shot, 5 Fury, and usually free charges. Sure, there are differences like a better gun effect on the Dracodile and animus, better in faction support for the Mammoth. In the end, it's a very similar model (as far as the whinging is concerned) that never sees the table these days. In fact, Dracodile has a better chance of landing in a Skorne list, at least in DoA. I don't see an overpowered model if it compares closely to another that doesn't get play much anymore. The dracodile and the mammoth have exactly the same faction support being that they are in the same faction. Excepting all the casters not in DoA.
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Post by benjamini on Oct 19, 2017 13:02:38 GMT
One thing that I personally think needs to be re-evaluated for Gargossals in general is the prevalence of 1d3 (or 1d3+1) rof guns. It's a mechanic that I generally dislike on any model in the game, but with a Gargossal it especially stings ~33% of the time, especially when all those 35+ points can do is shoot once or twice after that.
That being said I am not entirely sure what a good solution is... (maybe allow jacks/beasts to buy the remaining attacks with fury? so if my Mammoth rolls a 1 on the 1d3+1, I could spend two fury to still have the remaining two attacks?)
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