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Post by sideshowlucifer on Mar 14, 2017 12:10:46 GMT
Cryx isn't really terrible, they just don't feel like Cryx to me anymore. They feel like I'm playing a collection of mercs or something. I miss the dangerous spells that Cryx used to throw around and how their feats would totally change the tempo of games. Cryx has always been a faction defined by their powerhouse casters and I guess they all feel so generic now to me.
I also hate that Cryx pays such a premium for a Debuff tax on things. It's like everyone thinks every single target is always going to be debuffed so it's ok if the jacks don't hit very hard, when in truth there is so much arm and hitbox spam now that Cryx can't possibly keep up enough debuffs.
I own 2 units of the pirates and I used to like them as a novelty. That said, I hate the theme force with a passion. I never did bane spam, I own exactly one unit of each and an extra min unit of thralls for Shade1's feat. I'm not a fan of running multiples of the same jacks in a lot of lists outside of nodes in Cryx, which I feel are still paying a lot of points for a lot less effect now.
I own almost the entire faction with a few things doubled on, and it's almost all painted well and lovingly and now it mostly collects dust because it just ins't FUN to me. I'm glad there are people who enjoy it, honestly. I'm just not one of those people.
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Post by darkshroud on Mar 14, 2017 12:43:10 GMT
i feel like everyone commenting played in mk2 and am sore about being brought in line.
ive been playing a bunch since mk3 dropped. started 5? years ago at this point.
yea, i dont like toys being taken away while it seems like other factions get ridiculous stuff. but maybe thats what everyone else thought in mk2.
my buddy just bought INTO cryx. if that tells you anything.
keep in mind though, i havnt bought into the styxis gun slingers or bathroom. i did buy the bird thrall things. i think i like them so far.
noooot sure where mechanithralls stand. they are absolutely missing something just as a stand alone unit. is it a symptom of power creep and needing you to buy more stuff while trying to keep old stuff "relevant"? maybe. make them 4/8 maybe? bc theyre meant to be spammed and fa:u! but as it stands i cant see why...AD maybe? but then youre spending more than 10 pts on them unless you go min...
i also feel like the other 2 themes are either an undead theme with mechanithralls and soulhunters and the like, banes, or satyxis.
but with shade leaving, does that spell doom for banes? i guess we have aggy. maybe thats why they introduced her. to keep them theme-y.
whats been spoiled so far, i feel like we're missing something from our command book. well, i guess we got birds, gun slingers, 2 casters, a char jack, and a new pistol wraith. so, i guess its just that we already know most of our stuff where ret didnt.
either way, i hate to keep giving them the benefit of the doubt and saying, maybe themes will fix them. bc we shouldnt need themes to fix us. it shouldnt be a balancing point. but i feel like we are super bland and thats the only reason why.
but, we shall see...
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Post by sideshowlucifer on Mar 14, 2017 13:08:03 GMT
Well we still have Shade 1 and 2 and Aggy will still do what she does. Banes won't get any kind of look again until they are central to a theme more than likely.
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Post by dragash on Mar 14, 2017 14:15:07 GMT
I haven't stayed positive with Cryx. I was a relatively new player (bought into Cryx late into MK2), and now basically every model I own has been nerfed into the ground. Every shred of synergy my army had has been removed (e.g. Skarre1's feat is now worthless for an infantry-heavy army, Mechanithrall recursion by Necrosurgeon is worthless, Necrosurgeon can no longer heal Skarre1 etc.). Here's the thing - I don't have a big Cryx collection. I don't just have a ton of un-nerfed Cryx models ready and waiting. If I want a decent Cryx army, I basically need to throw my old stuff away and buy a completely new army from scratch. Not only is this a hefty investment to begin with, but even if I could muster the funds why would I bother? "Oh, maybe PP will be kind enough to not beat this next lot to death with the nerf bat." At best, I might as well invest in one of the factions PP doesn't completely despise. Otherwise, I could just look for a different game that doesn't require me to basically bin my collection between editions. Finally, even if had received a severe blow to the head and decided that investing more money into Cryx would be a good idea, we then have the problem that the fun has been surgically removed from the faction. Virtually every rule or mechanic I liked in MK2 has been either severely butchered or just removed altogether. All the stuff that made me want to play Cryx has been chopped off and replaced with bland nothingness. Hence, even if I could afford to buy a ton more stuff for Cryx, my enthusiasm for the faction has drained away entirely.
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ware86
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 51
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Post by ware86 on Mar 14, 2017 14:21:08 GMT
yea it's like buying GW stuff all over again
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Post by darkshroud on Mar 14, 2017 15:17:32 GMT
you guys need to step away from the game for a while. holy junk...
most stuff wasnt nerfed into the ground outside of gaspy2. and they fixed him.
skarre1s feat just isnt ridiculous anymore. it makes you choose instead of auto play itself. heaven forbid you have to make choices in a game. some dude just won a ton of games with skarre1, blackbanes, a couple of inflictors a scavenger and TWO WRAITH ENGINES.
if youre not having fun. sell youre stuff. if you still like the system, trade armies. if you actually like to look at cryx like i do, figure out how to make it work.
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 14, 2017 15:44:43 GMT
The point they're trying to make is that they shouldn't have to sell their stuff if they're not having fun. If they stop having fun, the game itself is a failure and needs to be looked at and thought about their developers, because that is the worst things a game designer can hear.
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Post by darkshroud on Mar 14, 2017 16:00:18 GMT
or maybe theyre mad that their OP stuff from MK2 isnt any more and havent given the new rules a decent shot.
its definitely not a failure. not sure where youre getting that from.
its ok to not enjoy a game. some people like risk, i personally dont. doesnt mean im going to run to the designers and scream they need to change it. i dont like sports games. doesnt mean im going to play them. or fighting games.
dont tell me cryx wasnt completely unbalanced before. bc it was atrocious. biles were stupid good. i get the frustation with recursion, i think they need to take another look at that. i agree that raiders needed to lose AD and the +2 movement from capt.
id agree that banes were too good. i think they should have kept stealth and dropped tough instead, but oh well.
it just means that running skarre isnt, move guys up turn1 and 2, feat turn 3 and kill most of their stuff for 5 health and now they cant reliably kill stuff. thats not okay.
if thats the type of game youre looking for, theyre trying to change that.
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Nyxu
Overseer
NaCl Elemental
Posts: 119
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Post by Nyxu on Mar 14, 2017 16:03:26 GMT
I appreciate and in many ways agree with your posts thus far, but let's try to keep to the topic of finding ways to stay positive despite these factors And I'm going to be blunt. Arguments based on cryx players wanting to be "op" again have exactly zero place here and will not be tolerated further.
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Post by bfdhud on Mar 14, 2017 16:09:41 GMT
I'm sorry but I agree with Dargash. I came into this game mid Mk2. I bought into Cryx because I wanted to play an undead Horde. As a player the most fun I had with cryx was watching my opponent try to figure out how to make 3 heavy warbeasts and a unit of heavy infantry out attrition 30 small based infantry models.
That was the appeal to cryx. In short I played Cryx, because I wanted to play an infantry faction. And so I bought infantry.
Then this shit edition happened and they didn't just nerf the banes (no reasonable cryx player would argue banes were excessive and needed nerfed) They nerfed everything about this faction that make me want to play it in the first place. Then they nerfed all of our infantry, even the infantry that didn't need a nerf.
We're the infantry faction that only uses Raiders now, not because they are amazing, but because of all the shit infantry we have they are the least shitty.
Privateer press didn't just take our OP stuff and tone it down. They took everything we had and toned it down, then they changed the way the game plays fundamentally but made no special allowance for us as a faction. Grymkin get arcana cards, but PP couldn't let us stay the infantry faction?
We're now the infantry faction that doesn't play infantry. We're just nothing special now, hollow skeletal generic models. The flavor of the faction is gone.
At least GW never took that away from Imperial Guard..
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Post by darkshroud on Mar 14, 2017 16:11:44 GMT
loooots of people realllllly like ghost ship.
thats like, 3 units of dudes. with recursion.
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Nyxu
Overseer
NaCl Elemental
Posts: 119
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Post by Nyxu on Mar 14, 2017 16:19:22 GMT
Ghost fleet is bonkers. It's not overtly powerful and I initially didn't like it , but now I'm getting almost the opposite impression- it has a lot of power and, while I've only had two games with it, they both leveraged the rules on the cards to a horrifying extreme.
If I can get it cheap, I may pick up the wraith engine in my lgs (used model, it's bent forward into a face plant somehow )
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ware86
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 51
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Post by ware86 on Mar 14, 2017 16:24:45 GMT
loooots of people realllllly like ghost ship. thats like, 3 units of dudes. with recursion. I hate the models and hate restrictions of themes. It might be strong but why should i invest into a theme when i have so much cryx already? I don't want Mk2 back but i want the models i bought the faction for (looks) to be useable and not feeling forced to buy into a strong theme i hate the models of , that might see a nerf in the future (so i sit on even more unused models this time even more i also hate the look of) I stay positive and switch games. And will see how the used market or the game is in a year or so. Most of my friends stopped anyway (would have been a motive to stay).
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Post by darkshroud on Mar 14, 2017 16:25:01 GMT
ghost fleet, that...
honestly, i wont be buying into it. ill wait for the other themes. i dont have any units of them. so just to make one list would be kind of expensive.
but if they can make an "un-usable" unit shine, im looking forward to the other 2 themes. banes with free UAs and free BLT? sure... (bane theme not confirmed or mentioned anywhere, just saying...)
although i must admit, im not a fan of something only being viable in theme.
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Post by bfdhud on Mar 14, 2017 16:28:24 GMT
loooots of people realllllly like ghost ship. thats like, 3 units of dudes. with recursion. I would but I own none of the models needed for that theme. And I'm not going to buy 300 worth of models for a theme that PP may nerf in 6 months time. That's probably part of it too, with the "active development" they are doing now I have no faith that anything I'd buy would be useful in the near future. I'm not trying to be difficult, but like a lot of us I have 6 or 7 hundred dollars of cryx models that are just borderline unplayable or totally unplayable. That's a tough pill to swallow.
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