steck
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 51
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Post by steck on Mar 13, 2017 18:10:15 GMT
I never really got much into bane spam, I picked up my first and only unit of warriors toward the end of mk2, used them in 2 games. I dont mind that they lost just about everything nice they had, I dont like that they lost it all and still pay a premium for WM infantry, even with tough back. There arent a lot of good ways to speed them up past their 9" threat range. So I tried knights, they have vengeance after all so that works as a threat extender. Still died horribly to any amount of shooting and the one or two that survived to get into combat with shooting units would kill a couple and then get killed in return. Raiders at least took a bit of effort to remove when I tried applying them instead. I used soul hunters and they just feel a bit weak, especially after my usual opponent picked up storm lances.
I was really excited for jacks to play a role in mk3, I liked most of the jack designs of cryx and those and banes are why I chose them. But my cryx jacks dont survive with enough punch to do much. The only real thing I have had luck with was Aiakos1 and one or two stalkers. Always seems to preform and either kill solos or the caster. Its not that cryx is horrible and unwinnable in the new edition, its that the parts of cryx I like and want to play dont seem worth putting on the table. Cryx jack spam just dies much easier than most other armor spam lists that people are actually worried about, my cool looking elite undead troops will almost always die before doing much. My cheap undead fodder now doesnt have enough of a punch to be threatening, is slow, and saying they die to a stiff breeze is an understatement. I can either buy more raiders, buy into the pirate boat, or start one of the other factions I thought about playing while I wait for privateer press to fix all of my models with theme lists and hope that they dont make good models better with themes in the process.
I dont want an easy win, and accept that I am not that good at the game to begin with. But I dont want to feel like the most important contribution my models are having is being removed to open up LOS on my caster for a quick kill.
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Nyxu
Overseer
NaCl Elemental
Posts: 119
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Post by Nyxu on Mar 13, 2017 19:29:19 GMT
The fact that we have a thread dedicated to "staying positive" should tell you all you need to know about the state of Cryx. I think the more telling thing is the Goreshade The Bastard soul gate rules question about whether or not you can cast the spell by removing Goreshade from play and losing instantly by assassination
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Mar 13, 2017 19:35:37 GMT
I stay positive by providing negative play experiences for my opponents. I recently went to the OTC and went 4-0 getting a total of 425+ army destroyed, 22 cp's and making a harkavich jack spam concede turn 2. Total cp's scored against me where 0. Played agaist damiano theme, sloan, vayl2, and harkavich. Same weekend played the cephalyx with my ghost fleet and summarily beat thexus. Sadly my team only went 2-2 We lost to black knight prime, and another team I can't remember. Also this last weekend I went to another smaller sized tournoment, ended up being only 3 rounds because a pairdown lost. I won, beat trolls, haley2, and it was a cryx on cryx final. My opponent was playing gaspy3 and played a great game. My 6 competitive casters I use are denny1, Terminus, Shade1, Venethrax, Scaverous, and Gaspy1. I just love the salt from my opponents, it keeps me positive. I'd love to see your Terminus, Shade1 and Gaspy1 lists.
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Post by drach42 on Mar 13, 2017 21:55:32 GMT
War Room Army
Cryx - terminus ghost pirates
Theme: The Ghost Fleet 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Effigy of Valor - Steamroller Objective
Lich Lord Terminus - WJ: +26 - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Seether - PC: 13
Captain Rengrave - PC: 0 Pistol Wraith - PC: 0 Pistol Wraith - PC: 0
Revenant Cannon Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 4 Revenant Cannon Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 4 Revenant Crew of the Atramentous - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 Revenant Crew of the Atramentous - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 Revenant Crew of the Atramentous - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 - Revenant Crew Rifleman - PC: 2 Blackbane's Ghost Raiders - Blackbane & 5 Grunts: 11
THEME: The Ghost Fleet
War Room Army
Cryx - Shade1 melee
Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army
Objective - Stockpile
Goreshade the - WJ: +27 - Deathwalker - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 1) - Seether - PC: 13 - Seether - PC: 13 - Malice - PC: 15
Necrotech - PC: 2 Necrotech - PC: 2 Necrotech - PC: 2 Machine Wraith - PC: 2 Warwitch Siren - PC: 4 Warwitch Siren - PC: 4 Machine Wraith - PC: 2 Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist - PC: 4
War Room Army
Cryx - gaspy1 assassination
Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army
Objective - Fuel Cache
Iron Lich Asphyxious - WJ: +28 - The Withershadow Combine - Maelovus, Admonia & Tremulus: 9 - Corruptor - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Corruptor - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Cankerworm - PC: 9 - Nightwretch - PC: 7 - Nightwretch - PC: 7
Necrotech - PC: 2 Necrotech - PC: 2 Machine Wraith - PC: 2 Machine Wraith - PC: 2 Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist - PC: 4 Necrotech - PC: 2
Blackbane's Ghost Raiders - Blackbane & 5 Grunts: 11 Satyxis Gunslingers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7 Satyxis Gunslingers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7
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ware86
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 51
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Post by ware86 on Mar 14, 2017 3:37:15 GMT
Hmm seether spam you say well never tried that (have only two and they have been underwhelming) but 4+ maybe? I will try:
Goreshade the - WJ: +27 - Deathwalker - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 1) - Seether - PC: 13 - Barathrum - PC: 15
Warwitch Siren - PC: 4 Warwitch Siren - PC: 4 Machine Wraith - PC: 2 Machine Wraith - PC: 2 Necrotech - PC: 2 Necrotech - PC: 2
Satyxis Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch - PC: 3
Seems like a weaker karchev but maybe it's fun . I can see the synergy with shadowmancer. Having countercharging pow 19 jacks with stealth, that can be fury efficient, with a small unit of banes and raiders as tarpit seems nice. Anti stealth kills it but what can you do?
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Mar 14, 2017 3:43:43 GMT
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 14, 2017 3:47:33 GMT
The fact that we have a thread dedicated to "staying positive" should tell you all you need to know about the state of Cryx. I think the more telling thing is the Goreshade The soul gate rules question about whether or not you can cast the spell by removing Goreshade from play and losing instantly by assassination To be fair I played a 2 caster game the other day and it was a legit concern. The Inflictor in question would have been better in Venethrax's battlegroup and I was curious about whether I could just move Shade next to Venethrax and Soul Gate the Inflictor to him so it could migrate battlegroups. Wasn't sure if the interaction was another bugged oversight that PP says "works as intended", was actually meant to work, or was wrong. It's nice to know Goreshade1 becomes unplayable if Warmachine ever gets an MtG Mindslavor type effect. I was tempted to make a joke about Goreshade being suicidial or needing Zoloft to battle his depression, but didn't need my PP forum account banned. Granted I'm not going to use it outside of rules questions, I don't support censorship.
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ware86
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 51
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Post by ware86 on Mar 14, 2017 4:10:34 GMT
Iron Lich Asphyxious - WJ: +28 - Deathripper - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Deathripper - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Cankerworm - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Leviathan - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Leviathan - PC: 16
Warwitch Siren - PC: 4 Warwitch Siren - PC: 4 Machine Wraith - PC: 2 Machine Wraith - PC: 2
Satyxis Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch - PC: 3 Satyxis Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch - PC: 3
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Post by sircas on Mar 14, 2017 8:10:20 GMT
To be honest, I have enjoyed cryx more in mk3 despite all we have lost. I was never into bane and mcthrall spam and these are the only things that have been seriously nerfed. My jack shenanigans armies have powered up tremendously. Incorp spam is hilarious with a number of casters. Scaverous, coven, and the skarres have multiple excellent lists. Mortenebra has been fixed to the point of being awesome. All my favourites still good.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 14, 2017 9:29:07 GMT
I kind of still enjoy Cryx, and I'm using quite a lot of it, though I haven't found any reason to play McThralls at all yet. But it's pretty frustrating to always play an uphill battle, it's really noticeable in some matchups.
To continue the topic, I've played this a few times with Shade 1, I enjoyed it, but I'm not sure what matchups it really covers that I can't cover with Gaspy 3. It's a stealth skew/heavy spam, I forgot what I did with the last 6 points, but the min Carrion Thralls are basically to run annoyance, contest flags and for the occasional Soul Gate (which you cast very rarely, because you usually want Shade to activate first for Shadowmancer)
Cryx Army - 69 / 75 points
!!! Your army must contain at least 97 total points.
(Goreshade 1) Goreshade the [+27] - Deathwalker - Inflictor [13] - Inflictor [13] - Seether [13] - Seether [13] - The Withershadow Combine [9] Carrion Thralls (min) [6] Machine Wraith [2] Machine Wraith [2] Warwitch Siren [4] Warwitch Siren [4] Wrong Eye [17] - Snapjaw
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Post by far2casual on Mar 14, 2017 10:32:47 GMT
I think we complain too much. We are competitive, we have choices. There is one section where PP screwed Cryx big time during the transition, it was on units and the solos directly supporting them (Banes and Sauce, Trolls and Ogruns, Thralls of all sort). They are slowly undoing the harm that was done, so I'm still hopeful.
Theme forces are not my preferred way of fixing that, but the new theme forces are still more versatile than the old ones. If I have to play a theme force to play Dead Pirates, but that in this theme force there is enough variations to see different but very powerful lists (like Denny1 and Skarre1 playing very different Ghost Fleets), then I'm fine with that. Let them do one for Banes, one for Thralls, one for living Pirates, ... and we're good to go.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 14, 2017 10:45:34 GMT
I think we complain too much. We are competitive, we have choices. There is one section where PP screwed Cryx big time during the transition, it was on units and the solos directly supporting them (Banes and Sauce, Trolls and Ogruns, Thralls of all sort). They are slowly undoing the harm that was done, so I'm still hopeful. Theme forces are not my preferred way of fixing that, but the new theme forces are still more versatile than the old ones. If I have to play a theme force to play Dead Pirates, but that in this theme force there is enough variations to see different but very powerful lists (like Denny1 and Skarre1 playing very different Ghost Fleets), then I'm fine with that. Let them do one for Banes, one for Thralls, one for living Pirates, ... and we're good to go. I don't necessarily disagree with you (we definitely complain too much), but I still don't think using Theme Forces to fix otherwise bad models is good game design. Revenants become really good because they need that +1 on the D3, just D3 is too swingy on a really expensive unit. Also, just giving a bunch of free models often makes themes a non-choice. Do I want more versatility or do I literally want to play 10+ points up from my opponent? I think Revenants might be fine if they just lost 1 more point on both unit sizes. They become cheap enough to use as fodder and shaving off 3 points in theme still doesn't let you automatically field an extra cannon. But besides that, deliberately making things bad, only to fix them in some theme force where you are forced to spam the models you would never play out of theme? It feels really dirty, not to mention a little lazy.
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ware86
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 51
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Post by ware86 on Mar 14, 2017 11:07:03 GMT
yea.. Themes ... selling models multiple times that look so bad nearly no one would have bought them without that theme, that makes them pretty strong (that's at least what i think seeing Ghost fleet)
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Post by skathrex on Mar 14, 2017 11:16:04 GMT
Well Khador has some good to great jacks and their infantry is now better than ours. Pikemen still have +4 arm and threat as far as our Cav (Riders) they have some of the best shooting inf. in the game ... we have raiders and our Jacks are also nothing compared to what Khador has (just saying). We are carried by a few strong builds all around Coven and Raiders as at least one pair. Played Khador for a long time (MK2) and their Inf. is close as good as MK2 (just not all of the old inf.) and some of them have problems because of the high heavy meta. Their jacks are also great. we lost our old inf., lost our casters (aside from denny 1 no idea why she stayed 95% as she was), while our jacks are as meh as ever and not received anything good in return. Even if we would see suddenly more Inf. as opponents, we would need only to apply more Raiders (if we could). They are also our best overall weapon against inf.( enough power, high def in melee also only ones with a high enough mat to kill high def...) I don't want to go into a discussion Khador vs. Cryx. Khador players know they are in a good spot right now. Even though when you look at the competetive Khador lists you won't find any melee infantry (single wound that is) outside of Irusk2 (and he is seen less and less). The point I was trying to make is, that the change in seen modells is everywhere. I know thats frustrating but I think PP has seen this and is trying to give everything his spot. Its just there is a lot on their plate, and from what we know Cryx isn't that far into the future.
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ware86
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 51
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Post by ware86 on Mar 14, 2017 11:45:48 GMT
I would say that they have the same problem we have. Only the "best" inf. gets played : Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) +3 Rocketeers. But that's the problem, when you remove the max cap. They probably hoped they would push sales of all models because there is no FA. Reality will be: We will only see a small margin of the factions. And no one can say 2una and Karchev haven't got them a fast influx of money, the question will be what damage it has done in the long run, for their sales. (waiting until somebody finds a skew that will bring down the models for all, even those who only used a few is also not funny). Looking forward seeing Mad dogs in the near future...
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