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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 15, 2017 20:09:15 GMT
An illegitimate "heir" - it was classic finding of a cassus belli followed by an invasion. Does it say that she's illegitimate in the book?
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Post by catulle on Jun 15, 2017 21:19:50 GMT
An illegitimate "heir" - it was classic finding of a cassus belli followed by an invasion. Does it say that she's illegitimate in the book? I'm pretty sure it does; I'll re-listen tomorrow, though. I got the impression it was a deliberate parallel with Julius' situation.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jun 15, 2017 21:26:01 GMT
She is literally the only one in the family alive. At this point her claim becomes pretty legitimate
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Post by catulle on Jun 15, 2017 21:51:43 GMT
She is literally the only one in the family alive. At this point her claim becomes pretty legitimate I believe it's meant to make the Umbrean claim stronger by comparison, and thus (dynastic) shennanigans that avoid a clear wrong-right dichotomy. But, a re-listen beckons!
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 15, 2017 21:55:39 GMT
Does it say that she's illegitimate in the book? I'm pretty sure it does; I'll re-listen tomorrow, though. I got the impression it was a deliberate parallel with Julius' situation. I know that Vlad CLAIMS she's an obvious imposter. But he had never even seen her. As far as the reader knows, she is the only surviving heir. And I doubt Julius' advisors would try to marry him to a con artist.
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Post by catulle on Jun 15, 2017 22:01:53 GMT
Sometimes a sketchy claim is all you need (see Tudor, Henry) so long as you win the war. Nu-Cygnar post-Leto gave the impression of being a more realpolitik kind of place than Stryker would like it to be.
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Post by Aegis on Jun 15, 2017 22:13:45 GMT
Yeah, to what the reader knows she is the last living member of Llallese royal family, that was totally tracked and assassinated by Khador assassins exactly to avoid potential claims like this.
The treaty involved Khador returning some stolen lands to Cygnar (Thornwood included) in exchange of Cygnar recognition of Khador rights to rule in the conquered Llael (and also promises of good neighbourhood and merchant exchanges).
One of the clauses is, anyway, that if a legitimate heir shows up, Khador has to give up Llael to him (with the excuse that Cygnar had an alliance with the Royal family of Lleal, so if they are still alive they couldn't recognize another country as Llael ruler).
Khador accepts, but the treaty is just a trick of Julius and his counsil.
Julius had already discovered the heir, and so the treaty is actually all in favor of Cygnar and only a damage to Khador (since Cygnar gains back his territories and time to reorganize after the civil war, and Khador actually gains nothing al loses Llael).
Obviously, when shortly after the treaty the heirs appears, and happens to be the promised wife of Cygnar king, Khador understands to have been tricked and refuses to respect the treaty, claiming that the heir is an impostor (but that is just an excuse, they know she is autentic) and refusing to cede Llael.
At that point, Cygnar, for the first time in recent history, becomes the invader, with the excuse to force Khador to respect the agreement, invades Llael and tries to conquer it back.
In this war, Khador is the defender, and actually is Cygnar that made up a shady political move to trick its enemy. Sure, technically Cygnar is right, but it's evident that in this case they are the ones that betrayed the spirit of the treaty.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jun 15, 2017 22:19:13 GMT
Yeah, to what the reader knows she is the last alive member of Llallese royal family, that was totally researched and assassinated by Khador assassins exactly to avoid potential claims like this. The treaty involved Khador returning some stolen lands to Cygnar (Thornwood included) in exchange of Cygnar recognition of Khador rights to rule in the conquered Llael (and also promises of good neighbourhood and merchant exchanges). One of the clauses is, anyway, that if a legitimate heir shows up, Khador has to give up Llael to him (with the excuse that Cygnar had an alliance with the Royal family of Lleal, so if they are still alive they couldn't recognize another country as Llael ruler). Khador accepts, but the treaty is just a trick of Julius and his counsil. Julius already had discovered the heir, and so the treaty is actually all in favor of Cygnar and only a damage to Khador (since Cygnar gains back his territories and time to reorganize after the civil war, and Khador actually gains nothing al loses Llael). Obviously, when shortly after the treaty the heirs appears, and happens to be the promised wife of Cygnar king, Khador understand to have been tricked and refuses to respect the treaty, claiming that the heir is an impostor (but that is just an excuse, they know she is autentic) and refusing to cede Llael. At that point, Cygnar, for the first time in recent history, becomes the invader, with the excuse to force Khador to respect the agreement, invades Llael and tries to conquer it back. In this war, Khador is the defender, and actually its Cygnar that made up a shady political move to trick it's enemy. Sure, technically Cygnar is right, but it's evident that in this case they are the ones that betrayed the spirit of the treaty. All fairly accurate and the most interesting part of the book. (One might say the only interesting part of the book depending how spoiled you are on quality reading)
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Ryilan
Guild Master
Fighting heretics with vindaloo curry. Taste my spicy wrath!
Posts: 74
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Post by Ryilan on Jun 23, 2017 13:25:20 GMT
This is the final warning to keep things on topic. There is a perfectly good general lore thread to have the current discussion at, so take it there. As always if you wish for posts from this threat to be moved there, send me a PM. Do not ask for it in this thread. If this thread goes off-topic once more, i'll consider the original discussion done and lock it up.
Ryilan
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Post by Aegis on Jun 23, 2017 22:54:56 GMT
Moved the posts into the general IK fluff discussion topic, since Ryilan is absolutely right.
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