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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 14, 2017 20:15:00 GMT
Anyway, the Khadorans invade. The Cygnarans are doing alright in the fight, but it's close. Khador brought a lot of steel with them. Magnus, ignoring orders, had set up many bombs with the green death around the surrounding area. He set them off, and many Khadorans died. I was a bit confused as to what Happened. Did Harkevitch set up the illegal chemical or something? I forget.
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Post by Aegis on Jun 14, 2017 20:22:26 GMT
Anyway, the Khadorans invade. The Cygnarans are doing alright in the fight, but it's close. Khador brought a lot of steel with them. Magnus, ignoring orders, had set up many bombs with the green death around the surrounding area. He set them off, and many Khadorans died. I was a bit confused as to what Happened. Did Harkevitch set up the illegal chemical or something? I forget. Harkevitch "mined" the bridge to the city with a foul chemical weapon (a green gas that make his victim die orribly while their internal organs melt). Stryker and Magnus successfully disabled the trap, but while Stryker wanted to destroy the recovered chemical weapons, Magnus against his order used them to mine some trenches in the city, and set up a trap that he used when the khador army returned, killing few thousands of khadorans soldiers in that horrible way (in practice, using their weapon against them), to the horror of both Stryker and Vlad that considered it a war crime outside what even rival armies should do.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 14, 2017 20:31:35 GMT
Harkevitch "mined" the bridge to the city with a foul chemical weapon (a green gas that make his victim die orribly while they internal organs melt). How weirdly out of character. I guess PP needed somebody to job for cygnar and unless the Khadoran wasn't mid kitten chew, well something was wrong. I honestly just Khador went full super evil now. Used Cryxian tech and just Firetruck it. If you always have to be a cigar-chomping villain then at least be the badass villain.
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Post by elladan52 on Jun 14, 2017 20:32:19 GMT
That makes Vlad good, right? So cygnar and Khador are moral equals in this case? One guy wants to use the weapon (Hark/Magnus) and one guy is horrified about it (Vlad/Stryker). I'd wager we could find a lot of situations where that is the case.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 14, 2017 20:35:41 GMT
That makes Vlad good, right? So cygnar and Khador are moral equals in this case? One guy wants to use the weapon (Hark/Magnus) and one guy is horrified about it (Vlad/Stryker). I'd wager we could find a lot of situations where that is the case. Oh, absolutely. I think Vlad and Stryker are the most honorable knight-like characters in their factions. Like I said, Khador is close to Cygnar on the "moral scale of good/evil".
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 14, 2017 20:40:07 GMT
That makes Vlad good, right? So is was Hark. Couldn't it be BOMBS? Couldn't he just set up BOMBS under a bridge? NO, it has to be awful Cryxian gas for the even established decent guy of Khador. So F it. Why not start using Bonejacks and Necromancy? Seriously why not? No limits.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jun 14, 2017 20:41:17 GMT
Ahh i miss the good old days when Stryker would round up al the Cygnaran menites and ship them down the river all concentration camp style. Any moral claims by stryker seem disengenuous after that.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 14, 2017 20:45:01 GMT
Ahh i miss the good old days when Stryker would round up al the Cygnaran menites and ship them down the river all concentration camp style. Any moral claims by stryker seem disengenuous after that. Actually that was 1 choice I did not mind and was perfectly logical. When Menoth pretty much declares Holy war on anybody who isn't menoth, and his HOLY AVATAR supports the people that use Flamethrower technology first to punish their own. THEN maybe on the enemy. Well. How does one reconcile that with being Cygnarian? This isn't real life where god doesn't communicate directly. What does a Worshipper of Menoth answer when asked why he isn't with the Protectorate (Especially when his divine avatar lends them her support as well as divine inspirations for awful weapons of destruction).
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Post by Aegis on Jun 14, 2017 21:36:57 GMT
Harkevitch "mined" the bridge to the city with a foul chemical weapon (a green gas that make his victim die orribly while they internal organs melt). How weirdly out of character. I guess PP needed somebody to job for cygnar and unless the Khadoran wasn't mid kitten chew, well something was wrong. I honestly just Khador went full super evil now. Used Cryxian tech and just Firetruck it. If you always have to be a cigar-chomping villain then at least be the badass villain. They tried to justify it pointing out that the city was full of khadoran villagers that colonized it after getting it from Llael, and Harkevich being the "Hero of the people" was willing to do anything to protect them, knowing that he was in inferiority and that a long siege would be devasting for the people. That said, I agree, still badly out of charachter. It could have been normal bombs and it could have worked well enough without using illegal chemical weapons. On Stryker: Those changes of mind are part of his story arc and evolution. He started as the classic idealistic and naive patriotic guy (Stryker 1), then he was exposed to Feora's war crimes during the holy war of the Protectorate, to the point were he started to become full of anger, dropped his ideal and became ruthlessly pragmatic and even reckless in his quest to defend Cygnar from what he identified as the evils that threatned it (Stryker 2). Then, in a temple of Menoth, in one of the last battles of the war, he fighted Feora, and Feora decided to destroy the whole temple they were fighting in, full of menite innocent people, just to bury Stryker with it. Stryker had the chance to reach Feora, but doing so would have to leave the people in the temple die. At that point, Stryker had a conscience crysis, and finally decided to help the menite people out and leave Feora get away, also being injured in the collapse while helping the people coming out. After that experience, he returned a bit on his old path. He is now (Stryker 3) a little less naive (a little... He is still quite naive), but decided to stick to his original valors, realizing that otherwise he would turn into being the same as the ones he hated and fighted. That is described in the book and into the moral arguments between Magnus and Stryker, and Stryker did actually understood why Magnus behaved in a certain way, and has seen what he would have become if he sticked to his vengeance path. Exactly because Styker stubbornly refuses to do things that make sense in war (Like torturing a prisoner to get vital info on the enemy that could save thousands of cygnaran soldier's lives), but that he promised to himself to never do again, that the two warcasters clash so much. That said, Stryker is still a quite boring character, sometimes even pedantic in his way of professing his supposed superior morality over his enemies (and sometimes peers, like Magnus).
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 14, 2017 21:41:44 GMT
They tried to justify it pointing out that the city was full of khadoran villagers that colonized it after getting it from Llael, and Harkevich being the "Hero of the people" was willing to do anything to protect them, knowing that he was in inferiority and that a long siege would be devasting for the people. That said, I agree, still badly out of charachter. It could have been normal bombs and it could have worked well enough without using illegal chemical weapons. Worse. He did the ILLOGICAL thing in order to Stop the Cygnarians. Break the bridge and they can't get in at all. AT ALL. Water hoses jacks and ruins their electrotech. So he did the illogical thing for maximum evilness. Just do it PP. Have him eat a baby. Just have Khador be pure MWAHAHAHAING kitten killing puppy pounding villains. Just have them wear skulls on their uniforms. Have them have concentration camps for all non khadorans to get murdered. Make them turn the layelese into soap. Because I freakin hate having Hark be a jobber to make Strykers story look good by comparison. I can see at least how he would believe that the ends don't justify the means.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 14, 2017 22:04:06 GMT
Thanks for the synopsis, Aegis. I do think Stryker's a bit better than you give him credit for. He has pretty clear motivations for trying to keep his allies from going down the path he went down. He and Magnus have a lot of baggage, of course.
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Post by Aegis on Jun 14, 2017 22:14:56 GMT
Thanks for the synopsis, Aegis. I do think Stryker's a bit better than you give him credit for. He has pretty clear motivations for trying to keep his allies from going down the path he went down. He and Magnus have a lot of baggage, of course. Actually, I don't contest his motivations, it's more his attitude that I can't really say I like. He is quite pedantic, and sometimes even childish, like in his qualms over serving King Julius now, after being so close to King Leto, where he continues to whine since he hasn't the same privileges he had during Leto's rule (come on, the boy doesn't know you, and it's known that you would prefer to have his uncle on the throne than him, how can you expect that he threats you with the same amount of consideration than the man that practically YOU putted on the throne, siding with him in his coup against his brother?). P.S.: If someone is curious of why I like Cygnar even if I said that I don't like how Haley and Stryker turned out in the end (I actually liked the beginning of Haley story), its because that are the only two things I don't like. I love the Old Man Nemo (as the avatar suggests), as well as most other Cygnar warcasters and characters story.
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kuarnix
Junior Strategist
Posts: 145
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Post by kuarnix on Jun 15, 2017 1:04:14 GMT
I stepped out for some air and Khador are the super bad guys now? What? Really?
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 15, 2017 1:12:12 GMT
I stepped out for some air and Khador are the super bad guys now? What? Really? They're willing to do some pretty nasty things to ensure victory, yes. They aren't as bad as Cryx, for instance. But Khador breaks treaties, chains prisoners to Orgoth blades that drive them insane, and seeks to conquer the whole world over.
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Ryilan
Guild Master
Fighting heretics with vindaloo curry. Taste my spicy wrath!
Posts: 74
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Post by Ryilan on Jun 15, 2017 9:38:29 GMT
This is a friendly reminder to keep things on-topic. I have seen very little on-topic talk in the past few pages. If you wish to continue this general lore talk, please make a separate thread for it. Posts from this thread can be moved there, just send me a PM. Do not request it in this thread.
Ryilan
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