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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 2, 2017 7:53:39 GMT
How did the agi list play out? I saw her pop up on ADR and was curious how my khador forces would fare up because I wasn't sure if she could run a solid ghost list! I would also like to know this. I've actually been thinking about this setup and it does have some notable advantages over Denny 1, 1 being that Agathia can benefit from the new Wraith Engine, the other that with an aggressive feat, it's much easier to be protected from ranged RFP, which is one of the major weaknesses of Ghost Fleet. Disadvantages being that your ranged assassination threat is much worse as well as the all out gunline potential because no DEF debuff, but she still has Parasite, so she's still a threat.
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Post by timtheenchanter on Jun 6, 2017 0:15:21 GMT
MuseCon Lists:[Some stuff I wrote] How did the agi list play out? I saw her pop up on ADR and was curious how my khador forces would fare up because I wasn't sure if she could run a solid ghost list! She delivers an army well, and can deploy well regardless of terrain, which can make your unpacking better. Her feat supports Stalkers well. She's generally a Denny1-lite, but she's still powerful enough in a restricted format like Champions. She'll hit my regular table a little more with the Bane theme.
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Post by timtheenchanter on Jun 6, 2017 0:43:05 GMT
Not to get too off topic, but I also won MuseOnCon with similar lists. Congratulations. If you're up for some questions, I'll fire away: Over here in Germany I've been seeing variants of Denny1 Ghost Fleet pop up that use a Kraken (and a 'node or two) as the battle group and forego the Wraith Engine. What do you think about this build? Does it require different answers from the WE + 2x Stalker variant? For me personally the conclusion is probably to take Rasheth into my pairing instead of Hexy2 (once I get all those Reivers painted). He has no RfP but pure volume of fire should hopefully do the trick. I assume the assassination is pretty much off the table with Castigate up? I would STRONGLY urge you to reconsider dismissing the importance of RFP. Removed from play effects is what preys on the list the best, bar nothing. Having said that, I'm not sold on the Kraken. Obviously, it gives you a good anchor piece, but it removed 2 points of your access to ARM swing, which is a big deal. It also takes away your ability to steal warjacks in the Khador matchup with created Machine Wraiths. It's probable that the Kraken version of the list has trouble (post feat) cracking armor. I know this sounds odd to express, given the level of debuffing. Let me try to make myself more clear. Denny is great at deleting one or two pieces a turn. The Wraith Engine can make that two or three. Moreover, she doesn't do a lot to support the Kraken offensively or defensively. If you can position to remove it, she's in trouble. One of the most effective ways to play into Ghost Fleet is to treat Revenants almost like terrain that can kill you, and focus on removing pieces that don't come back. The counterplay to this is to offer relatively few targets, or offer targets who have stealth (Nightmare, Stalkers) or Incorporeal (Blackbanes, Engine, Pistol solos). The Kraken puts a lot of eggs in a basket you can attack through conventional means. This makes it weak to lists with a proactive game plan.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Jun 6, 2017 4:57:43 GMT
How did the agi list play out? I saw her pop up on ADR and was curious how my khador forces would fare up because I wasn't sure if she could run a solid ghost list! She delivers an army well, and can deploy well regardless of terrain, which can make your unpacking better. Her feat supports Stalkers well. She's generally a Denny1-lite, but she's still powerful enough in a restricted format like Champions. She'll hit my regular table a little more with the Bane theme. Why? She doesn't exactly do much for banes. They're already Ghostly, the Theme Force grants Prowl which is redundant with the feat, and she doesn't really have any spells that help banes any more than other casters. I'm just not sure what she's suppose to be doing with an army full of Banes. Don't get me wrong I love Agathia, but her kit just seems wasted in Dark Host.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jun 6, 2017 7:12:45 GMT
I would STRONGLY urge you to reconsider dismissing the importance of RFP. Removed from play effects is what preys on the list the best, bar nothing. Having said that, I'm not sold on the Kraken. Obviously, it gives you a good anchor piece, but it removed 2 points of your access to ARM swing, which is a big deal. It also takes away your ability to steal warjacks in the Khador matchup with created Machine Wraiths. It's probable that the Kraken version of the list has trouble (post feat) cracking armor. I know this sounds odd to express, given the level of debuffing. Let me try to make myself more clear. Denny is great at deleting one or two pieces a turn. The Wraith Engine can make that two or three. Moreover, she doesn't do a lot to support the Kraken offensively or defensively. If you can position to remove it, she's in trouble. One of the most effective ways to play into Ghost Fleet is to treat Revenants almost like terrain that can kill you, and focus on removing pieces that don't come back. The counterplay to this is to offer relatively few targets, or offer targets who have stealth (Nightmare, Stalkers) or Incorporeal (Blackbanes, Engine, Pistol solos). The Kraken puts a lot of eggs in a basket you can attack through conventional means. This makes it weak to lists with a proactive game plan. Thank you for the insight. So I suppose I will stay with Hexeris2 for now. He should be playable into the Coven. Once lists like Shade3 + 10 Riders hit the table things will become interesting. What I am a little convernad about is the Assassination. Rasheth is pretty much safe with Castigate and a Krea, while Hexy2 can only cast Banishing Ward on himself and hope for the best.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 6, 2017 7:21:42 GMT
She delivers an army well, and can deploy well regardless of terrain, which can make your unpacking better. Her feat supports Stalkers well. She's generally a Denny1-lite, but she's still powerful enough in a restricted format like Champions. She'll hit my regular table a little more with the Bane theme. Why? She doesn't exactly do much for banes. They're already Ghostly, the Theme Force grants Prowl which is redundant with the feat, and she doesn't really have any spells that help banes any more than other casters. I'm just not sure what she's suppose to be doing with an army full of Banes. Don't get me wrong I love Agathia, but her kit just seems wasted in Dark Host. I agree. I think she is a decent Ghost Fleet caster for reasons mentioned, decent in Infernal Machines because you get Deathjack with Vengeance, but think anyone else with Parasite is a better Dark Host caster.
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Post by Cryptix on Jun 6, 2017 12:27:07 GMT
Yeah, I like her in Infernal with either a Desecrator Gunline or Deathjack + Seethers janky angles. Hyper-Aggressive, while niche, can really surprise opponents.
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Post by timtheenchanter on Jun 6, 2017 16:37:02 GMT
Why? She doesn't exactly do much for banes. They're already Ghostly, the Theme Force grants Prowl which is redundant with the feat, and she doesn't really have any spells that help banes any more than other casters. I'm just not sure what she's suppose to be doing with an army full of Banes. Don't get me wrong I love Agathia, but her kit just seems wasted in Dark Host. I agree. I think she is a decent Ghost Fleet caster for reasons mentioned, decent in Infernal Machines because you get Deathjack with Vengeance, but think anyone else with Parasite is a better Dark Host caster. It's just something I'd like to test. Getting prowl on your caster is nice, as are placing clouds outside the killbox to trigger it.
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Post by Korianneder on Jun 6, 2017 18:39:03 GMT
Nice work Tim. I've been telling my local Cryx players that the theme force was busted since it came out. It's probably good they haven't been playing it much because my factions have really limited rfp. I don't think Convergence has any. All I can do is spam assimilators and teps and hope I have enough attacks, but I need 8's to hit and with no spell protection Denny can shut me down pretty well. It doesn't sound like a fun game for me.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 7, 2017 6:46:58 GMT
I agree. I think she is a decent Ghost Fleet caster for reasons mentioned, decent in Infernal Machines because you get Deathjack with Vengeance, but think anyone else with Parasite is a better Dark Host caster. It's just something I'd like to test. Getting prowl on your caster is nice, as are placing clouds outside the killbox to trigger it. Oh, definitely. It's something I've thought about as well, but I think the advantages (Prowl and clouds) don't outweigh the wasting of half of her tool kit. Still would be interested to hear your findings.
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Post by far2casual on Jun 7, 2017 9:27:49 GMT
Nice work Tim. I've been telling my local Cryx players that the theme force was busted since it came out. It's probably good they haven't been playing it much because my factions have really limited rfp. I don't think Convergence has any. All I can do is spam assimilators and teps and hope I have enough attacks, but I need 8's to hit and with no spell protection Denny can shut me down pretty well. It doesn't sound like a fun game for me. Convergence can just drop a TEP or 2 and remove 25 Revenants a turn.
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Post by Korianneder on Jun 7, 2017 12:01:57 GMT
Nice work Tim. I've been telling my local Cryx players that the theme force was busted since it came out. It's probably good they haven't been playing it much because my factions have really limited rfp. I don't think Convergence has any. All I can do is spam assimilators and teps and hope I have enough attacks, but I need 8's to hit and with no spell protection Denny can shut me down pretty well. It doesn't sound like a fun game for me. Convergence can just drop a TEP or 2 and remove 25 Revenants a turn. Then Denny brings back a pretty good portion of those revenants, feats, casts crippling grasp and parasite and easily removes an armor 14 or 15 battle engine that was only 10 inches away from whatever it had killed. The battle engine really only gets one good turn because it won't survive Denny's counter attack especially if it's pushed so far forward that it's getting a lot of models underneath its sprays.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 7, 2017 12:15:02 GMT
Convergence can just drop a TEP or 2 and remove 25 Revenants a turn. Then Denny brings back a pretty good portion of those revenants, feats, casts crippling grasp and parasite and easily removes an armor 14 or 15 battle engine that was only 10 inches away from whatever it had killed. The battle engine really only gets one good turn because it won't survive Denny's counter attack especially if it's pushed so far forward that it's getting a lot of models underneath its sprays. It depends on what other things you have available. I played against a Thagrosh 1 list with the new Throne, Carnivean, Typhon, Hex Hunters and fillers; even though there is no RFP, volume of attacks is definitely a thing. I didn't want to feat on the Throne because I needed it to kill Typhon who was further back. Don't feed him both your TEPs on the same turn and force him to make hard choices.
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