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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 27, 2022 5:07:34 GMT
home.privateerpress.com/2022/07/26/warmachine-big-news/Some points: -They said it was inevitable to release the new edition because it would be very different for many points. Aside the rants it surely have massive difference. -Hordes is now officially part of the game. -you cannot choose the faction and you can only pick the 'theme force' by default. -warjacks are able to customize. -There are some other customizable components for the other models as well. -New app for the game will be released, and it's all free for models stat card but feature for gaming is limited by the subscription. -new models are produced by 3D PRINTER. You heard it well. I said 3D printer! Aside the rant, what I can't believe is they are using the 3D printer. Yes I know the technology is keep advance but is it the time actually? At least they are no fool(aside the rant) so they must be results enough success on this, though, I didn't think that officially using 3D printer on miniature game would be so fast like this.
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Asmoridin
Junior Strategist
Getting back into the game after too long a hiatus!
Posts: 323 
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Post by Asmoridin on Jul 27, 2022 11:31:27 GMT
Overall, I'm very excited to see where things go, but I'm trying to not be too upset until I get more information. Yeah, Unlimited format is great and all... but they won't support it for long, I'm sure. We'll see. The game needed something. Hopefully this it  |
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 27, 2022 13:45:31 GMT
Overall, I'm very excited to see where things go, but I'm trying to not be too upset until I get more information. Yeah, Unlimited format is great and all... but they won't support it for long, I'm sure. We'll see. The game needed something. Hopefully this it That's exactly what I fear, although it is shame that I didn't note this on OP. One of Warmachine&Hordes' strength is leave nothing behind and at least keep everything legal, whatever it is overpowered or not something usable in the real games unless it's a fun game. But leave some models behind is so scary to hear. If it were a computer game, then all we need to do is used to the new meta and system, but we play miniature game - with the models we paid, painted and assembled. At least, until now, PP keep the existed models legal and I have the faith on this despite of various rants against them for years, but how it does after then?
Well, yes it is not the first case actually, for Monsterpocalypse also had similar problem....
Also what I really fear, along with this problem, is I have seen the shadow of GW behind of them for years. They are really good at follow this - include various mistakes what GW already did. Is it really inevitable? For a growing company in the miniature game business?
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Post by michael on Jul 27, 2022 21:38:35 GMT
... Yeah, Unlimited format is great and all... but they won't support it for long, I'm sure. … Aside from the fact that the whole announcement about the Unlimited format took pains to explain they’re going to spend the next 18 months making sure all models have rules, and they’re not going to try to balance the Unlimited format to account for MK IV releases, and they literally said they didn’t want to take the route of that other game (Warhammer Fantasy) and nuke everybody’s stuff and invalidate it… I mean sure, that all says they’re not going to have Unlimited stick around for long.  |
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 28, 2022 0:16:16 GMT
Yeah. At least PP were very different with the other company regarding such problem, after all.
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Asmoridin
Junior Strategist
Getting back into the game after too long a hiatus!
Posts: 323
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Post by Asmoridin on Jul 28, 2022 11:27:09 GMT
... Yeah, Unlimited format is great and all... but they won't support it for long, I'm sure. … Aside from the fact that the whole announcement about the Unlimited format took pains to explain they’re going to spend the next 18 months making sure all models have rules, and they’re not going to try to balance the Unlimited format to account for MK IV releases, and they literally said they didn’t want to take the route of that other game (Warhammer Fantasy) and nuke everybody’s stuff and invalidate it… I mean sure, that all says they’re not going to have Unlimited stick around for long. Most pertinent to me is: "and they’re not going to try to balance the Unlimited format to account for MK IV releases" So, the game goes imbalanced at some point (likely). It's imbalanced enough to be unplayable. If they don't do something to adjust that, is that supporting it to you? Because to me, that's not. Sure, they'll spend 18 months supporting the format, because none of us own Mk IV stuff. That's great. And hey, they'll have tournaments for it, because again, most of our stuff is going to be unusable in the Prime format (although some will be, I know). Again, this is a format they'll drop as soon as they can. And they are a business- they SHOULD drop it, so we buy new models and generate income. Like, I'm not upset with them about this- I think they're doing the smart thing. Doesn't mean I feel like the 20 grand of product I own has a future, plain and simple. Am I going to buy into the new game? Absolutely. Will I play it? You bet. Will I like it? I mean, I like Warcaster well enough, and they've made the game a lot more similar. But do I really think Unlimited is going to stick around? No way. Of course, let me be clear- I hope I'm wrong. I have no reason to distrust PP, they've never done wrong by me, so maybe I'm way off base. |
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 29, 2022 15:51:22 GMT
Probably going to pass on the new edition.
After 30 years playing tabletop wargames I rarely find new editions rules to be "better" so much as "different", opening up new problems while trying and often failing to close old ones.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 29, 2022 17:37:08 GMT
My impression was MkIII was much better balanced than MkII. Although I did have issues with the rules for concealment/cover etc.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 29, 2022 18:59:17 GMT
My impression was MkIII was much better balanced than MkII. Although I did have issues with the rules for concealment/cover etc. Although I don't like to change an edition, but I am agreed on this. Generally MKIII was better than MKII, at least after the chaos on the early days. |
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Post by michael on Jul 29, 2022 19:32:58 GMT
Each new edition has been a substantial improvement over the previous edition. |
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Post by axehappy on Jul 30, 2022 7:01:27 GMT
I finished reading the Beta Rules today, but haven't finished reading through the cards yet. The overwhelming majority seems to be the same. Right up to the point that there are copy and past errors referring to stats that have changed names. Don't really get the sky is falling crowd, but I look forward to snapping up some legacy armies on the cheap from the doom cycle. Love that the Modular Jacks come setup and ready for and with magnets. Love that jacks pretty much got a massive power boost across the board, with innate dual attack. HILLS ARE BACK!  But seriously, them and elevation not existing where one of the biggest, "What...?" moments for me when I jumped back in a year or so ago. Super excited for the return of the Book/NQ style stuff with the app. And I think the sub fee might actually be cheaper than my NQ one was back in the day. A lot of the streamlining seems as if it will be great, AOE/Cavalry/Facing/etc. I don't really get it for sprays, but maybe some people were super finicky about it at tournaments or something? I dunno. Focus being 3 different stats now just makes so much sense, and would have helped problems with certain casters throughout 3 different editions. Remember when people were pissy that the amount of spells a caster had stopped being tied to their focus stat? Good times. The Total War Engagement Size. Firetruck. Yes. Probably some other stuff I'm forgetting (as I was reading through it at work mostly) that made me have a head slap kinda, "Duh, that makes so much sense," or, "Sweet, that'll make things smoother/cleaner/less clunky/etc." I am...cautiously optimistic about the new way units move. Definitely have to get some games in with it, but I could absolutely see it making units have a cinematic/video game-eqse feel as well as better representing a chaotic battlefield and make it feel more like turns are sorta happening at the same time with what is occurring, but...I could also see it being...well...kinda lame I guess. Heh. However, I must admit, there is one thing (and I think actually maybe only one thing? Have to read them over again) that I was quite taken aback by and disappointed with. There is no game size option with more than 1 caster! HERESY! BLASPHEMY! Some of my favourite games are *still* 1000 point 2 caster games pre-Escalation. Sure the Sorscha 3D was...fine...but compared to the Sorscha 3D while Vlad casts S&P and Feats and sends a couple of Marauders to slam some heavy Jacks into the area of the opponents forces not part of the 3D'd caster's area reeking just a devastating amount of havoc across a staggering amount of models/board space/whatever you wanna say. And there was that one game where my Cygnar Opponent (Caine/Haley) killed the *entire* rest of my army except the Butcher and Vlad. That was a good time. Obviously joking a bit, but I would really like to see a MK IV Unbound or whatever. Maybe in the App. |
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Miafan
Junior Strategist
Eater of Brains
Posts: 130
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Post by Miafan on Jul 30, 2022 10:37:38 GMT
I would be quite a hypocrite if I complain much about this matter.
Because I've been calling for this move (granted, I did not expect/wishlist them to slash factions en-masse, just most of models and entries from each faction, but alas) since advent of MK3 that made me drop the system.
I am probably supposed to be pissy about Protectorate of Menoth I gathered and painted lovingly... but I have long concluded that overall my choice of faction was wrong and gameplaywise I am into factions with extreme skews and very defined peculiarities, like Legion, not jack-of-all-traders. My painted stuff is with me still, everything else I sold, no hard feelings. Though I suspect Cryx players have a lot to say...
Most of the stuff they demonstrated so far is pretty neat. I don't like the look of new Cygnar much, too heavy and bulky and Warcaster-y, Orgoth can go take a hike but Khador looks like extreme improvement, so will be waiting for more pictures.
The dreaded 3d printed stuff actually looks like MK2 plastic warjack kits, but crispier, finer detailed and overall neater. Cleaning them from flash will be rectal pain, but a minor one. Not a problem, unless they bend badly.
Rules look fine, on condition they are actually working on them, and not pulling another "3 years of playtesting" BS.
Pricetag concerns me though. 200$ is a price of Cursed City IIRC. Initially I did not pay attention and thought it's gonna be a dual faction starter, but if it's a price for just one faction box, PP has really high expectations of what people are ready to pay for their 3d-printed reboot. Not sure if they are justified, comparisons are inevitable.
Kicking major part of factions in the balls will surely lose them a chunk of playerbase, but no pain no gain I guess. I wonder what is going to be the fate of poor sods like Grymkin and Infernal. Quietly swept under the rug? Mercenaries?
Still, only my best wishes to PP in this bold move, because despite ruining Page 5 to appease the PC herd, they actually had a pair to go for it. So, full speed ahead, meanwhile I will be ogling Khador intensely and making up my mind.
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Post by tyrantnewman on Jul 30, 2022 11:17:52 GMT
For what I've seen so far the changes to movement are the only thing drawing a "wait, lolwut?" from me. A flat 2" penalty for rough terrain is how another system does it and it's all kinds of counter-intuitive there, and I don't like that how far an Spd 6 unit can move depends on what it is. Cutting the unit sizes down seems like it would pretty well address the problem with it taking too long to move units that change is aimed at addressing.
On the other hand PP isn't another company and they're a lot more likely to look at all the feedback on those things and decide maybe they should revisit those rules.
Leaving that moderately sized nit to the side, I think "Prime Armies comprised of legacy models" is a pretty good compromise to addressing existing collections. My honest guess is that outside of competitive events "hey, can I take this Eferrit Scout in what would otherwise be a Prime Thornfall list?" will be the norm anywhere that a lot of players have preexisting collections.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 30, 2022 12:29:29 GMT
The loss of Free Strikes I think is a huge change to how games will play out, as being able to just walk past front-line models changes the game a lot. I guess they are trying to remove a lot of the fiddly little details of moving physical models around with a measuring tape (no templates, no facing), but... I dunno, that stuff had it's charm, you know? Figuring out a way to squeeze past a model to get at the juicy target behind it felt great when it happened. But of course this way is faster and easier.
I've seen a lot of people join the LOS Discord in the last few days saying that they are planning to pick up/get back into the game with MkIV, so that's encouraging.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 30, 2022 13:20:07 GMT
At least, it seems that their initial talk was real; this is very, very different with what we played before. I think that we better consider this the new game that is the sequel to Warmachine&Hordes and also succeed the world settings rather than only the new edition. I don't have rants at least for this part, for it have huge difference with what we have played.
I can't say positive or negative right now(perhaps somewhat negative right now because so many things have changed regardless it's a good move or not and I think that it can't be helped at least for now) but yes, I think that PP got a point - at least it makes things really faster than before.
The only weird thing would be unit level movement, but... well, that may reasonable if we play the game? After all, despite of various rants through the years, I still can't deny that they are still the good and creative game developers. They did disappointed me for many points and for many years, but they rarely disappoint me for the quality of their own ruleset.
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But seriously, them and elevation not existing where one of the biggest, "What...?" moments for me when I jumped back in a year or so ago. 
