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Post by auraco on Mar 27, 2020 15:04:29 GMT
My problem with a caster like Sorscha1, is really that even just using focus to give it a semi-decent threat range (10'' with boundless charge) you're spending too much focus on a jack that doesn't do a lot of work, and with no spd buff threathing 8'' is just miserable, and running 8'' a turn can just be ignored for the first couple of turn of the game.
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Post by Havock on Mar 27, 2020 18:36:23 GMT
At this point just get rid of the old stuff. Give them an end-life update with refurbished cortices. No unstable, SPD 5, done.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Mar 27, 2020 19:47:25 GMT
As i said, if you wanna keep the exploding, make it on death. That way it actually has a unique role, by making the enemy think about what to kill it with.
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Post by MacGuffin on Apr 10, 2020 5:16:09 GMT
Super awesome update: I decided to split that baby and acquire a handful of berserker kits alongside a handful of cheap secondhand (but unpainted!) juggernauts. And a new behemoth. And also a 75 point army to escort them, with a trio of the best jack casters in the world. Thanks again to all for your input!
FOR THE MOTHERLAND
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 10, 2020 9:37:29 GMT
I love a happy ending.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 10, 2020 10:15:32 GMT
Super awesome update: I decided to split that baby and acquire a handful of berserker kits alongside a handful of cheap secondhand (but unpainted!) juggernauts. And a new behemoth. And also a 75 point army to escort them, with a trio of the best jack casters in the world. Thanks again to all for your input! FOR THE MOTHERLAND My god, you split a child? What are you, king Solomon?
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Post by MacGuffin on Apr 10, 2020 18:28:51 GMT
Super awesome update: I decided to split that baby and acquire a handful of berserker kits alongside a handful of cheap secondhand (but unpainted!) juggernauts. And a new behemoth. And also a 75 point army to escort them, with a trio of the best jack casters in the world. Thanks again to all for your input! FOR THE MOTHERLAND My god, you split a child? What are you, king Solomon? I am no one so wise, I just thought I'd take a page out of Butcher's book, as he will be my first warcaster!
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Post by michael on Apr 10, 2020 22:01:23 GMT
I wish you success in using the Berserker! ...but I reserve the right to say “I told you so.”
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Post by mcdermott on Apr 12, 2020 8:59:22 GMT
I wish you success in using the Berserker! ...but I reserve the right to say “I told you so.” DYNAMIC UPDATE: The berserker chassis is now 4 points
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Post by michael on Apr 12, 2020 17:46:15 GMT
I wish you success in using the Berserker! ...but I reserve the right to say “I told you so.” DYNAMIC UPDATE: The berserker chassis is now 4 points That would be a poor change for many reasons.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Apr 16, 2020 7:36:38 GMT
The role of the Berserker Chassis is to destroy infantry, through Berserking or Trampling. Thats what they do, as other lights do as well. For that they do not need additional focus, but give a much more stable frame than lights do. I think trying to make them a small juggernaut is not going to work. It is not what they are supposed to be doing, so they will never be good at it.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 16, 2020 7:52:31 GMT
The role of the Berserker Chassis is to destroy infantry, through Berserking or Trampling. Thats what they do, as other lights do as well. For that they do not need additional focus, but give a much more stable frame than lights do. I think trying to make them a small juggernaut is not going to work. It is not what they are supposed to be doing, so they will never be good at it. MAT6 (originally 5) 1" Berserk without extra movement for 8 points does not compare very well to other anti-infantry options unfortunately. It doesn't feel like a lot of work went into designing it as an anti-infantry option, rather they just slapped on the Berserk keyword since it already had it in it's name. The Mad Dog's trample meanwhile seems more purpose-designed for anti infantry, and sounds like it has more value for that task on paper. Although you need landing spots and you could end up taking a lot of free strikes etc; at least I assume that's why they don't end up actually being taken for that purpose all that often. I suppose it could be argued that the Berserker is anti heavy infantry (lower DEF, higher ARM, smaller numbers, can't be trampled), while the Mad Dog is for anti light infantry?
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Post by MacGuffin on Apr 16, 2020 15:50:41 GMT
For what it's worth, my Berserker Employment Plan relies heavily on two things: piece-trading and clock management. Berserkers are basically cheap heavies that can ding up most models, even if they can't destroy them. They don't really need focus (at least with the warcasters I'm bringing), so that frees up the time and cognitive resources that might otherwise go into them. They run up and threaten, and when they get destroyed, there's probably another one behind it. The remainder of my list functions similarly, except for a juggernaut and a behemoth for wrapping things up. The point is to make my opponent waste his/her clock handling my models, and waste as little of my own time as possible with attacks/strategy until later in the game.
Obviously I'm new to Khador and not great at this game generally, but I've had some success with this approach in minions, so I figured I'd try it out here. At 75 points, I can leverage lots of cheap models and make my opponent burn up his/her time handling them.
All of which is to say that I like the jack-of-all-trades-but-master-of-none aspect of Berserkers. But I might be crazy!
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Post by michael on Apr 16, 2020 16:47:47 GMT
The role of the Berserker Chassis is to destroy infantry, through Berserking or Trampling. Thats what they do, as other lights do as well. For that they do not need additional focus, but give a much more stable frame than lights do. I think trying to make them a small juggernaut is not going to work. It is not what they are supposed to be doing, so they will never be good at it. This is going to come across as more incendiary than intended, but: have you ever actually used Berserkers? They simply do not perform the way you suggest against even marginally competent players. Which infantry does the Berserker excel against? (Also, I submit that most light warjacks have specialist roles and that the majority are not anti-infantry pieces, but that is a different topic.)
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 16, 2020 17:21:09 GMT
The role of the Berserker Chassis is to destroy infantry, through Berserking or Trampling. Thats what they do, as other lights do as well. For that they do not need additional focus, but give a much more stable frame than lights do. I think trying to make them a small juggernaut is not going to work. It is not what they are supposed to be doing, so they will never be good at it. This is going to come across as more incendiary than intended, but: have you ever actually used Berserkers? They simply do not perform the way you suggest against even marginally competent players. Which infantry does the Berserker excel against? (Also, I submit that most light warjacks have specialist roles and that the majority are not anti-infantry pieces, but that is a different topic.) I'll absolutely agree with that last sentiment, unless your light is bringing some very special tech to the table you're going to be better off with a heavy in almost all cases. This is true for warbeasts, and much more true for warjacks, since they don't generate their own resources. Unless you're running a Synergy or Incite caster lights just don't trade well. Dervish, Griffon, Griffons, Cyclops Savage all only function as bread and butter pieces if you have access to jam. Troll bouncer - you take him for the shield guard and animus. Damage output is almost strictly inferior to Valkyries and he's only one shield guard. Charger and Harpy - you take them because they can rack up kills without committing over the course of a game and have special tech on their guns. Berserkers could be interesting with a Syn&Inc caster on paper, but in practice they almost always prefer pieces with longer threat ranges rather than more damage. P+S 18-19 is useless if you can't deliver it. If they had something like the Road Hog's speed dial maybe they'd be good in that scenario.
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