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Post by lorddragonmaster on Mar 24, 2020 12:35:11 GMT
Make'em 6 points!
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Mar 24, 2020 14:14:24 GMT
I wonder how much the Berserker would improve if Unstable was changed in such a way that it always dies, but only if you fully loaded it up?
Unstable - At the end of this model's activation, if it began its activation with 3 focus points, this model explodes and other models within 3" of it suffer an unboostable POW 14 blast damage roll. Remove this model from play.
This way there's an actual incentive to use the 'serker at the 2 focus mark from time to time, and if you're going in hot you know it's a suicide mission, no ifs or buts. to compensate I'd drop its offensive profile by a bunch, of course, and that'll also add further incentive to use its full power instead of going with a safe 2 focus. Another possible way to tone them down would be to take away their power up rule, that'd also help make their rules distinct from other factions' jacks.
the question is whether at 8 points they'd outclass the Juggernaut. a big appeal of Khador is their defensive profile, and if your 'jacks die instantly after attacking that's obviously no longer a selling point. are 3 berserkers at 2 focus each going to significantly outperform 2 juggernauts at 3 focus each?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 24, 2020 14:22:41 GMT
Make them explode on a d3 rather than a d6, so spending 3 focus is 100%.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Mar 24, 2020 15:05:40 GMT
How about we do the sensible thing and.... not make them explode doing its job?
Leaving 8 points to go up in flames will never be good.
If the fluff needs to be kept give them uncontrollable rage/agressive and/or let it explode when it dies like the Gatoman Husk.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 24, 2020 15:36:07 GMT
How about we do the sensible thing and.... not make them explode doing its job?
But then they lose their last remaining niche: doing stupid crap with for fun!
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Post by jonnyboy on Mar 24, 2020 15:36:14 GMT
Yea, there's almost no scenario i take a 8 point model that has a chance to explode. Infernals have the a similar rule, and you rarely see them go down to 0 focus/fury or whatever it's called.
I had come up with what i thought was an interesting rule awhile ago. Instead of blowing up, every focus used beyond the power up causes one cortex damage. Effectively neutering yourself after pushing too hard. But without losing an 8 point model.
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Post by michael on Mar 24, 2020 20:44:46 GMT
Oh boy, time for my annual Berserker rant! But this time I’ll summarize. Note that I have experience with this model since it was released in 2005 and experience using it repeatedly in all 3 editions. The problem with the Berserker is that it’s supposed to be Khador’s version of a light warjack, except it’s not. It looks and feels like a heavy warjack and it has Khador’s default heavy warjack stat line (actually a much worse one), unlike all other light vs. heavy stat lines, which generally give the lights more something (usually DEF, SPD, and special rules) in exchange for the raw boxes and ARM and hitting power of the heavy. Unstable was the core fluff concept in MK I, and the drawbacks of Unstable were compensated for by the ludicrous MK I rules attached to it. Compare the Berserker to another melee-only offense-only light warjack like a Dervish. The Berserker is a joke, especially once in-faction buffs are considered. Let me post this and then tell you a solution I came up with a couple years ago, and even repeatedly playtested in real games...
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Post by michael on Mar 24, 2020 22:10:14 GMT
Wrote it all up, deleted it instead of posting. Wishlisting for a better Berserker is pointless. I don't care enough to even speculate about it any more.
That ship sailed, and was then violently shelled, strafed, torpedoed, and sank with the loss of all hands, during the Armored Corps CID.
Never mind.
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 24, 2020 23:47:53 GMT
During the AC CID it had been so long since I'd used a Berserker that I thought they still had the free run and charge from MkII. Turned out they were actually alright for those two games before someone corrected me; Casters with force multipliers (a la Karchev or Sorscha3) let them use the Power Up Focus with great effect.
I really think they'd be okay again if they got that back. (Emphasis on 'okay'!)
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Post by jonnyboy on Mar 25, 2020 15:25:28 GMT
I think it's been hinted in vague terms, some things are going to be left 'bad'. Everything can't be A tier or even B/C tier. Zerker chasis is probably staying where it is for the foreseeable future.
Did some dojo with my karchev list. Replaced two marauders with beserkers and asked what would i do with those 6 points. Immediately upgrade berserkers to marauders.
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Post by lorddragonmaster on Mar 25, 2020 15:29:02 GMT
I think it's been hinted in vague terms, some things are going to be left 'bad'. Everything can't be A tier or even B/C tier. Zerker chasis is probably staying where it is for the foreseeable future. Just a shame, as I love the stumpy little model.
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Post by gobber on Mar 25, 2020 18:45:34 GMT
At least for me the question is usually "would i prefer Alexia2+Berserker or Marauder+a second Koldun Lord" which is a more challenging decision
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Mar 25, 2020 22:41:04 GMT
I think it's been hinted in vague terms, some things are going to be left 'bad'. Everything can't be A tier or even B/C tier. Zerker chasis is probably staying where it is for the foreseeable future. Did some dojo with my karchev list. Replaced two marauders with beserkers and asked what would i do with those 6 points. Immediately upgrade berserkers to marauders. Would be nice if the berserker was "okay" or at the least "meh". Being S tier garbage is no place to be especially if you went through CID.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Mar 25, 2020 22:54:02 GMT
I think it's been hinted in vague terms, some things are going to be left 'bad'. Everything can't be A tier or even B/C tier. Zerker chasis is probably staying where it is for the foreseeable future. Did some dojo with my karchev list. Replaced two marauders with beserkers and asked what would i do with those 6 points. Immediately upgrade berserkers to marauders. Would be nice if the berserker was "okay" or at the least "meh". Being S tier garbage is no place to be especially if you went through CID. really wish PP would bother to flatten the power level curve, especially when the difference between A tier and whatever you consider the lowest tier is absolute huge. Instead every CiD the A tier gets redefined.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Mar 27, 2020 12:36:42 GMT
It should just take damage instead of exploding. But why do you even intend on having this model do work? I think of it as a purely sacrificial piece (not tested this tough). You put him in a spot that can't be ignored and start the piece trade. It does not matter that its not quite the same stat line or that it does not eat focus well. Also if you Caster is sorcha1 or someone else who does not have tons of focus, are you really fully loading Jacks up all the time?
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