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Post by michael on Oct 13, 2020 18:57:18 GMT
The Berserker has a roughly 25% chance to take out a Wrastler, assuming the Berserker has 3 focus and goes first. Odds calculated without charging, and no buffs for either model.
The odds go up to roughly 36% against the Swamp Horror under the same conditions.
I don’t like those odds.
And that’s before we note that both beasts natively outthreat the Berserker, that warbeasts are significantly more survivable and capable of retaliation than warjacks due to aspects, etc.
(Fun fact: The Wrastler sits at ~60% odds to destroy the Berseker under the same conditions.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2020 19:04:19 GMT
Why isnt it buffed? Khador jacks need a lot of buffing in general to get work done.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
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Post by shmeep on Oct 13, 2020 20:19:43 GMT
Why isnt it buffed? Khador jacks need a lot of buffing in general to get work done. Because balancing the game is an incredibly delicate act, and after a million cycles dominated by light beasts / jack spam they've probably realized that slamming into it like a derailed train is not good for the company's future. That is to say, 'Zerker/Mad Dog spam dominated the meta for a very short time, PP crushed it with a triple nerf, and now they don't want to touch them with a ten foot pole - probably because they tend to wildly over/under-estimate how good stuff works, and if you overtune something as spammable as generic 'jacks they WILL be spammed. Same to a much lesser degree with Juggernaut/Marauder spam. A bit ironic, considering a big reason for MK3's inception was to make heavy metal action viable again. Warmachine, not Wardudes, was the thought process.
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Post by michael on Oct 13, 2020 20:35:39 GMT
Why isnt it buffed? Khador jacks need a lot of buffing in general to get work done. That is to say, 'Zerker/Mad Dog spam dominated the meta for a very short time, PP crushed it with a triple nerf, ... Point of order: quadruple to sextuple, depending. 1) Karchev’s feat (double: no free power attacks, no boosted attack rolls) 2) Berserker (cost) 3) Mad Dog (double: cost, Jury-Rigged -> Fleet) 4) No power attacks on friendly models (global change, but still)
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Post by michael on Oct 13, 2020 20:39:41 GMT
Why isnt it buffed? Khador jacks need a lot of buffing in general to get work done. Chiefly because that gets into too many permutations to discuss simply, and oft leads to the never-ending cherry-picking of battlefield conditions to make some point or another.
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Post by Havock on Oct 13, 2020 21:27:51 GMT
Why isnt it buffed? Khador jacks need a lot of buffing in general to get work done. Because if you buff, so do they. That's how it goes. You get a Fury, they get an Inviolable Resolve.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Oct 14, 2020 0:16:21 GMT
That is to say, 'Zerker/Mad Dog spam dominated the meta for a very short time, PP crushed it with a triple nerf, ... Point of order: quadruple to sextuple, depending. 1) Karchev’s feat (double: no free power attacks, no boosted attack rolls) 2) Berserker (cost) 3) Mad Dog (double: cost, Jury-Rigged -> Fleet) 4) No power attacks on friendly models (global change, but still) I count that as a triple nerf. Universal rule changes affect everyone (obviously!), even if some suffer from it more.
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Post by P'tit Nico on Oct 14, 2020 7:30:20 GMT
The Berserker has a roughly 25% chance to take out a Wrastler, assuming the Berserker has 3 focus and goes first. Odds calculated without charging, and no buffs for either model. The odds go up to roughly 36% against the Swamp Horror under the same conditions. I don’t like those odds. And that’s before we note that both beasts natively outthreat the Berserker, that warbeasts are significantly more survivable and capable of retaliation than warjacks due to aspects, etc. (Fun fact: The Wrastler sits at ~60% odds to destroy the Berseker under the same conditions.) Fun fact 2: a Juggernaut has a 37% chance of taking out a Wrastler under the same conditions, and 49% for the Swamp Horror. If you want to smash things, take a Juggernaut. It smashes things better, and it doesn't explode.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 14, 2020 9:33:10 GMT
Fun fact 2: a Juggernaut has a 37% chance of taking out a Wrastler under the same conditions, and 49% for the Swamp Horror. If you want to smash things, take a Juggernaut. It smashes things better, and it doesn't explode. What are the odds for two Berserkers? How about two Berserkers with the same amount of warcaster focus? How about three Berserkers vs two Juggernauts? I NEED MORE DATA DAMMIT!
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Post by P'tit Nico on Oct 14, 2020 9:57:25 GMT
Fun fact 2: a Juggernaut has a 37% chance of taking out a Wrastler under the same conditions, and 49% for the Swamp Horror. If you want to smash things, take a Juggernaut. It smashes things better, and it doesn't explode. What are the odds for two Berserkers? How about two Berserkers with the same amount of warcaster focus? How about three Berserkers vs two Juggernauts? I NEED MORE DATA DAMMIT! Buy or Boost is there for you.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 14, 2020 10:32:22 GMT
I was just trying to be humerous.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Oct 14, 2020 11:20:55 GMT
I was just trying to be humerous. oh, you'll see humerus soon enough, mr clown
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Post by P'tit Nico on Oct 14, 2020 11:30:48 GMT
I love hummus!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 21:26:26 GMT
Well, this far I've been sending my jacks in pairs to deal with hard targets and they seem to do fine.
Ye don't have to spam nothing but 'zerkers, but they do make for a good first wave infantry substitute in Jaws.
I find they're costed just right to be cheap enough to sacrifice yet be an annoyance that cannot be completely ignored.
Superiority on one can reliably carve up softer, dodgier targets, while one with Fury can hit as hard as two unbuffed Juggernauts.
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