wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Apr 21, 2017 10:07:55 GMT
So I tried the following list last night:
Butcher2 Ruin juggernaut Kodiak Max Uhlans Markov Drakhun x 2 Fenris wardog Forge Seer
It went very well, Butcher bullied the board, winning with assassination and 6 control points (the scenario was spread the net or whatever). I used the Uhlans to screen him and honestly I just threw them away. On the advice of my opponent I dropped the uhlans to a min for a widowmaker marksman and another forge seer. The forge seers really do help make up for a lower focus roll, letting you get some focus on jacks. I didn't really use mine that well last night and he still did work.
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Post by sand20go on Apr 21, 2017 20:11:24 GMT
COOL!! I will bring him next week for friendly games (and probably the scramble) at KC. I love the big guy!
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Post by Netherby on Apr 21, 2017 21:06:33 GMT
Well, pretty much anything would be an improvement over D6+1 focus.
He's not unplayable and I think the jack theme with two free seers would help him a lot. The issue is still that he isn't competitive due to being so unreliable. Honestly with the way things are currently he would be totally fine with the random focus stuff just removed.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Apr 22, 2017 10:07:08 GMT
Yeah Sand! Give it a go!
Netherby, I find the seers to be incredibly helpful, I agree. It means when you get a turn with only two focus you can still camp and load up a warjack.
I might be crazy, but I do like the random focus mechanic, even in tournaments. It adds an unpredictable element, sure, but he's also the most mobile Butcher we have when facing a ton of infantry. He can still pac man through large forces like crazy.
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studderingdave
Junior Strategist
May the Gods have mercy on your soul.
Posts: 114
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Post by studderingdave on Apr 22, 2017 11:34:50 GMT
I am playing him in my rotation right now int he Jaws theme (i mean all my lists are jaws themed right now). I feel B2 has a rogue factor now, big in MK2 for reaver spam he has really fallen off the map in mK3.
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Post by welshhoppo on Apr 22, 2017 11:46:49 GMT
Jank factor is a huge part of some matches.
Sure, we've all heard of Butcher2. But who has played against him recently?
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Apr 22, 2017 12:27:00 GMT
I have not played against him in over a year now
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on May 12, 2017 11:10:05 GMT
I'm glad to have found this thread. Interested to hear how he does in the net scenarios as well?
My list that I'm currently working on: War Room Army
Khador - Butcher2
Theme: Winter Guard Kommand 1 / 1 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kommander Orsus Zoktavir - WJ: +28 - War Dog - PC: 3 - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Marauder - PC: 10 - Kodiak - PC: 13 - Devastator - PC: 14 - Devastator - PC: 14
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4
Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 10 - Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
THEME: Winter Guard Kommand ---
GENERATED : 05/12/2017 12:06:11 BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16
The idea behind this list is to address butchers delivery into a shooty infantry army (specifically in this case the ghost fleet who can go to high levels of rat and pow). If he can make it in there first turn, pop feat and hold onto his focus for over boosting his power field he can chew through a big chunk of the enemy. Then the warjacks and infantry move up to screen him from what's left.
I'm really interested to hear the successful lists for him. Is it still Doom Reavers?
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Post by benjamini on May 12, 2017 14:39:17 GMT
He used to be one of my most played casters in MK II. I used to run him in steamrollers in a Squee-style jack spam list of devastators and Ruin (Now I mostly use Butcher 3 to get that particular type of thing on the table and have added Kodiaks). I think the main thing that is stopping me from being as interested in him now is the the removal of 360 swinging, and the changes to his feat as a threat extension.
I am sure he is still an alright choice to bring along, and I want come back to him at some point. Maybe when I am done messing around with Malakov and the Old Witch!
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Post by Voodoogk on May 12, 2017 16:50:02 GMT
You can make him Foc 6 always with Alpha hunter and he still will be worse than B3. PP really made B3 THE caster that takes care of things personally, I don't know how you can make another in same faction unless you power creep past B3. Maybe rework him completely and make him take the threat extender niche, so B1 will be the slow and hard hitting, B2 the fast one, B3 the one man army. He already has boundless, replace the whole berserk+alpha hunter thing with some relevant Field marshal and return the move part to feat, you can even nerf feat after that. No he'd be good with the above stats. B3 would be good at the game he does now, but if b2 had reliable focus and alpha hunter with his feat (and the ability to cast boundless charge) he'd have his place, I'd certainly play him. I don't think he would replace b3, but he would be good for his own reasons for sure. I was playing around with him and the main reason I hate him is I roll 1 every time I want to do something useful. This arcane dementia thing is fluffy but its just a bad rule. I can't think of any other faction with a caster that actually hurts themselves. And when you're facing ret who can just always do damage to your caster somehow or another, not having focus camp when you need it is hurting yourself
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on May 12, 2017 17:07:07 GMT
Simply put, would you use Butcher2 if any of the following changes occurred? - Arcane Dementia is flat put removed, but Butcher is Focus 5 - Arcane Dementia's random focus is D3+4 - Conferred Rage only gives a SPD Bonus, but Arcane Dementia only requires one kill at either melee or ranged - Arcane Dementia can trigger on battlegroup kills, Eliminator is replaced with convection. - Arcane Dementia stays the same, but Conferred Rage is replaced with Alpha Hunter. I would take arcane dementia at D3+3, and that's how I've always seen it proposed. I've also seen the proposal for Homocidal maniac to be flat out changed to Overtake. He still gets the 1"move, it still applies to enemy models only, without the weird stipulation that a friendly model (like ruin) could slow him down.
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kuarnix
Junior Strategist
Posts: 145
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Post by kuarnix on May 14, 2017 19:59:12 GMT
To be honest I think the issue is much less with the random focus than it is with how his feat changed across editions. Seriously, way back in MKI (when he was slightly worse than MK2 I think), I rolled a "1" on my focus roll and still killed Siege with Arcane Shield on him, on a hill, behind trencher smoke and a warjack, but that was mostly due to his feat. He is not much of an assassination 'caster any more, but he can still really beat the hell out of things that are within his army's charge and melee ranges.
But I guess the way his feat is worded now will let him personally slay the world? I miss my Fenris run-and-murder, though.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on May 14, 2017 20:47:30 GMT
He is super killy! I've been trying to figure out how far to push him in combat. I seem to get him killed a lot. It always seems like I throw him imto melee one turn too early.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on May 15, 2017 2:29:02 GMT
So who has used Butcher 2 in Jaws, and what's your jaws list look like?
I'm thinking that's the way to go... He'll really appreciate the double Forge Seers, and Scouts + double eliminators look good for rage tokens. From there season with jacks to taste?
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Post by welshhoppo on May 15, 2017 11:38:24 GMT
So who has used Butcher 2 in Jaws, and what's your jaws list look like? I'm thinking that's the way to go... He'll really appreciate the double Forge Seers, and Scouts + double eliminators look good for rage tokens. From there season with jacks to taste? I just couldn't do it without thinking how much better it would be if he had the mkii version of conferred rage. But I was also thinking of the same thing too. They are a way around the focus issues.
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