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Post by Cryptix on Apr 18, 2017 19:13:31 GMT
Simply put, would you use Butcher2 if any of the following changes occurred?
- Arcane Dementia is flat put removed, but Butcher is Focus 5
- Arcane Dementia's random focus is D3+4
- Conferred Rage only gives a SPD Bonus, but Arcane Dementia only requires one kill at either melee or ranged
- Arcane Dementia can trigger on battlegroup kills, Eliminator is replaced with convection.
- Arcane Dementia stays the same, but Conferred Rage is replaced with Alpha Hunter.
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Post by welshhoppo on Apr 18, 2017 19:16:17 GMT
I'd take him if his focus was D3+4 and if he replaced conferred rage with Alpha Hunter.
Free charges yo!
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Post by Cryptix on Apr 18, 2017 19:33:51 GMT
That was the rule I was looking for, I couldn't remember the name.
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Post by Voodoogk on Apr 18, 2017 19:56:23 GMT
Yeah.. agree with welsh. d3+4 might even be too good, but you cant roll d5+2 and I'm not packing d4's I refuse. I guess I'd be happy with d6+2 cant go above 7 though. Alpha hunter would be nice to have back.. I could probably work with alpha hunter with focus as is.. maybe.
Another option.. I mean.. just make him focus 6 like every other butcher.. this rule is uniquely stupid. They take focus kill off of dennys feat because too op, but we still have a caster that can screw himself? bizarre.. I know it's fluffy and trying to make for that time he totally lost his mind but it makes him bad.
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Post by The Snark Knight on Apr 18, 2017 20:53:16 GMT
I'm not settling for anything less than getting 360° melee arc back. If I'm going to risk waiting around to use him as my anti-infantry drop, I should at least be able to use him to kill an infantry squad without having a trigonometry book on hand.
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Post by Voodoogk on Apr 18, 2017 21:16:01 GMT
I'm not settling for anything less than getting 360° melee arc back. If I'm going to risk waiting around to use him as my anti-infantry drop, I should at least be able to use him to kill an infantry squad without having a trigonometry book on hand. Ahh yes.. that is also something I'd like fixed, either change the wording so things behind him dont stop him, or make it 360. It's like they hate him or something. |
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785 
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Post by wendan on Apr 18, 2017 21:30:00 GMT
I take him now and he's hilarious!
I would like him to have 360 swings back, rather than berserker. But I still like playing him. He does make games really comedic.
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Post by Cryptix on Apr 18, 2017 21:33:09 GMT
I'd settle for getting some kind of on-kill 360, like old Chain-Attack Bloodbath, except not a chain attack.
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Post by Voodoogk on Apr 18, 2017 21:50:08 GMT
I take him now and he's hilarious! I would like him to have 360 swings back, rather than berserker. But I still like playing him. He does make games really comedic. He's always been hilarious. I've never seen any other caster in the game that has that description though. Very hard to play a hilarious caster in a competitive enviroment. |
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Apr 18, 2017 22:16:59 GMT
Yeah, it can be. Though we have the advantage of having a really kickass army in general. You could probably drop Butcher into Legion or Jaws for example, than just use the army until the endgame. Really, that's often what we did in mark 2 anyways!
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Post by sand20go on Apr 18, 2017 22:58:26 GMT
I want to get back to B2 after Kingdom Con. I think that the Greyforge will now be a pretty important element of the full package since they "nerfed" Conferred Rage. Being able to load something (Ruin?) so he can charge 11 with 2 inch reach and go murderate somethings seems, well, really useful. If you find other ways to move stuff around (Mauraders?) to open up the land for Ruin you could really play him as an assassination piece.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Apr 18, 2017 23:13:44 GMT
I like that idea. I think Jaws (and I hope a greylord/doom reaver theme) will make him a little more attractive.
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Post by sand20go on Apr 18, 2017 23:29:10 GMT
I like that idea. I think Jaws (and I hope a greylord/doom reaver theme) will make him a little more attractive. I think you want Fenris and especially want 2 drakhuns. Bring Sylyss. That way you can always have Fury up on one element and then get out Boundless charge even if you roll a 1. You can then get that Drakhun charging at something 14 inches away. Then get 3 rage tokens on him. Feels like that should murderate a ton of casters in the game even with focus and transfers. You have to play him as an assassination caster and that means we want the stuff that can get the furthest up the field to threaten their caster (Uhlans could work as well, generating rage tokesn on impacts). Anyway, the key is absolutely figuring out long threat ranges and opening up lanes so you can get there. Fun times because you are on a razor's edge with the random focus. |
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Post by smoothcriminal on Apr 18, 2017 23:31:53 GMT
You can make him Foc 6 always with Alpha hunter and he still will be worse than B3.
PP really made B3 THE caster that takes care of things personally, I don't know how you can make another in same faction unless you power creep past B3.
Maybe rework him completely and make him take the threat extender niche, so B1 will be the slow and hard hitting, B2 the fast one, B3 the one man army. He already has boundless, replace the whole berserk+alpha hunter thing with some relevant Field marshal and return the move part to feat, you can even nerf feat after that.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Apr 18, 2017 23:49:17 GMT
Worse or different?
Butcher2 does make his entire battlegroup faster and more accurate with his abilities, and he can technically kill more things in a turn than B3 if it's a load of infantry you're facing. He also does allow his army to get a ton of attacks with his feat!
I really hope his stock will go up a lot more with all the infantry on the table. Sand, I think you're right. I'll probably run him with Uhlans, those solos, and a battlegroup.
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