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Post by jisidro on Aug 3, 2018 21:11:11 GMT
Full disclosure: Due to huge quotes I did not fully read the previous posts regarding Raptor VS Strider.
Here are my thoughts:
SS: RNG 14, pow 15 x2 with D3 free boosts. Rat 8 from 0-10", Rat 6 10.1 - 15. Lightning generator in all attacks. Dual attack.
Raptor: RNG 12, pow 14,reload 1, Animus 1 so has 2 available fury to boost to get same rat and +1 pow than SS. Lightning Generator as well.
Shooting looks like a winner for the SS who gets his own boosts and places no burden on the WARcaster. So imo you are paying 19pts for 22 boxes, more melee prowess, 2spd,flight, BG buffs and limits, the opportunity to spread the animus buff and 2 Def/-1 arm Forgot repo 3.
Not sure I'm sold.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 3, 2018 21:28:55 GMT
Interesting conversation and there's too much to touch on but I do want to say this. Anybody that thinks the SR's gun is as good as the storm strider is insane.
For 1 less point a pair of striders have 4x range 14 pow 15 boostables + leaps with easy access to snipe and up to a +6 swing in caster independant damage buffs in ionization, A&H, Ragman and/or Gorman.
In circle we get blessed magical (from an animus on a 17pt beast) no range extender and a max of a +2 damage buff from Hutchuk. Yes I'm aware its rat 8 pow 16 with animus and effectively range 13 if you count the reposition from deceptively mobile as a range extender.
Thing is the number of shots per point spent on the model counts, the range you can apply it at counts and the support you can offer it counts. Circle falls way behind in all of these categories so there's no way we should be paying double what Cygnar does for a similar shooting platform.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 3, 2018 21:30:30 GMT
Full disclosure: Due to huge quotes I did not fully read the previous posts regarding Raptor VS Strider. Here are my thoughts: SS: RNG 14, pow 15 x2 with D3 free boosts. Rat 8 from 0-10", Rat 6 10.1 - 15. Lightning generator in all attacks. Dual attack. Raptor: RNG 12, pow 14,reload 1, Animus 1 so has 2 available fury to boost to get same rat and +1 pow than SS. Lightning Generator as well. Shooting looks like a winner for the SS who gets his own boosts and places no burden on the WARcaster. So imo you are paying 19pts for 22 boxes, more melee prowess, 2spd,flight, BG buffs and limits, the opportunity to spread the animus buff and 2 Def/-1 arm Forgot repo 3. Not sure I'm sold. Cygnar spends 18 of those 19 and just straight up gets another strider >_<
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Post by paradox on Aug 3, 2018 21:34:41 GMT
Like, try playing SR into any Lamentation caster. Sad times.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 3, 2018 22:18:20 GMT
Like, try playing SR into any Lamentation caster. Sad times. Wouldn't matter in CotW. Doubling 0 is still 0.
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Post by challenger on Aug 3, 2018 22:35:22 GMT
Not all are 37pts. And most have a far better gun. Keep in mind it has 3 Initials, a Disruption Beak. And lightning generator on every single attack. It’s also basically immune to single would infantry without them alldting because pow 12 plasma nimbus. Sure it’s expensive, but based off what I have seen it’s worth it. E-leap on every attack, not Lightning Generator. That's only the gun as for "basically immune to single wound infantry" - Sending weaponmasters into the storm raptor will always be an extremely favourable trade even if they die for it. its a 37pt model with arm 18 and lower than average boxes
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Post by paradox on Aug 3, 2018 22:52:32 GMT
Like, try playing SR into any Lamentation caster. Sad times. Wouldn't matter in CotW. Doubling 0 is still 0. True. Not so in any other theme.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 3, 2018 22:55:54 GMT
Wouldn't matter in CotW. Doubling 0 is still 0. True. Not so in any other theme. Yeah but you're pushing this anti magic thing like its the deathknell for the big bird and on that point I think you're pretty off base. Move 7 and shoot 12 allows you to cast from outside these bubbles and then move into them pretty easily on the turn that matters. They're also so corner case that the bird will rarely see them. Zapdos has his flaws man but I think you need to let that bone go.
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Post by paradox on Aug 3, 2018 22:58:09 GMT
True. Not so in any other theme. Yeah but you're pushing this anti magic thing like its the deathknell for the big bird and on that point I think you're pretty off base. Move 7 and shoot 12 allows you to cast from outside these bubbles and then move into them pretty easily on the turn that matters. They're also so corner case that the bird will rarely see them. Zapdos has his flaws man but I think you need to let that bone go. I guess I see, and as Menoth field, a good deal of stuff that hoses animi. Shoots 12, but animi only hits 10, too. So if you have the extra 2” youre not casting animus anyway. Animus forces it in.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 3, 2018 23:07:22 GMT
Keep in mind it has 3 Initials, a Disruption Beak. And lightning generator on every single attack. It’s also basically immune to single would infantry without them alldting because pow 12 plasma nimbus. Sure it’s expensive, but based off what I have seen it’s worth it. E-leap on every attack, not Lightning Generator. That's only the gun as for "basically immune to single wound infantry" - Sending weaponmasters into the storm raptor will always be an extremely favourable trade even if they die for it. its a 37pt model with arm 18 and lower than average boxes Depends on the unit. You should’ve been shooting with the raptor anyway so hopefully your not only killing the unit with plasma nimbus. As far as the storm strider comparison, yeah shooting output it loses. But it does has Wayyyy better Melee presence, and a disruption beak. I’m going to test it In SM and Devo Host with Mohsar or Krueger1 in CiD. I think CotW makes it work fine because of the free animus. If it’s lackluster in our other themes that allow it/want it, then We will work from there. I have just seen it in action and it works great in CotW. But I can see the 2 Fury just to make the gun work being an issue in other themes.
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Post by josephkerr on Aug 4, 2018 0:28:06 GMT
Ive played an Archangel, and the gun is fine. I dont get why the Covenant is a hard counter. Force before movement. If the Covenant is standing 10” away, whats so hard about killing it?
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Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 4, 2018 0:35:08 GMT
Gun seems okay, but the rest of the kit looks lacking. Nothing has changed about this thing's allergy to boosted handcannons, either.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 4, 2018 0:55:12 GMT
...But I can see the 2 Fury just to make the gun work being an issue in other themes. ... So it ends up shooting worse than a SS who rolls only 1s for boosts? That sounds excessive. IMO it should be good enough in any theme and have a little extra in CotW. It's not like we have a multitude of buffs to improve its shooting.
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Post by challenger on Aug 4, 2018 1:04:08 GMT
Its already got reload1 built in to tax it. Making the animus cost 2 kills it completely in non call because then you get a 37pt garg with 1 fury to actually use.
You only get 2 fury in call too
The storm raptors got such massive downsides - low boxes, low arm, has its fury taxed, scenario implications of being so fragile and taking up a huge part of your list, and being very efficient to debuff, but not that efficient to buff in circle. Where the primary buff for melee beast output should only be cast on the raptor if it wins you the game - Primal.
Really theres like.. 1 buff in the entire faction that the raptor cares about which is Hand of Fate. Even CoS is pretty meh because i dont think Wurmy really wants a raptor, and mohsar is actively terrible
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Post by paradox on Aug 4, 2018 1:32:04 GMT
Ive played an Archangel, and the gun is fine. I dont get why the Covenant is a hard counter. Force before movement. If the Covenant is standing 10” away, whats so hard about killing it? Usually LoS blocking terrain.
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