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Post by Cryptix on Mar 24, 2017 20:36:32 GMT
If PP wanted it equal and fluffy, only Grolars and Kodiaks would be allowed
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 24, 2017 20:44:15 GMT
Id be OK with a little more than that. The Legion gets access to more flying Beasts then Khador Does access to a singular Jack type, and the list still offers a larger selection of Units then Jaws of the Wolf.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 25, 2017 17:44:13 GMT
Can we talk about Butcher 3 here for a few minutes? How does this caster look in the Jaws of the Wolf theme? Yes, that's my Butcher!So, why Butcher 3? He likes the sniper corp, Check. You get a free Marksman and can bring widowmaker scouts. He likes warjack backup. Check. You can easily fit Ruin and 5 more jacks in at 53 army points, getting you 3 free solos. He likes hard hitting infantry. You get 2 free manhunters, and have points left over for Yuri and Eliminators. He likes shield guards. Check - bring a Rager. (OK, no Bokur, and it will pain me to take a Rager). He likes spell protection. Check - bring Ruin. (OK, no Orin... that's the worst). So here's what I came up with. War Room Army Khador - Butcher 3 Jaws Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22 - War Argus - War Dog - PC: 3 - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Marauder - PC: 10 - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Rager - PC: 11 Manhunter - PC: 0 Manhunter - PC: 0 Yuri the Axe - PC: 6 Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 0 Widowmaker Scouts - Leader & 3 Grunts: 8 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 I feel like this list would have great game into a lot of stuff. Need shooting? You've got an entire sniper corp. Forests? Who cares. (Take that, Wormwood). Need armor cracking? You've got jacks for days. Need pathfinder? Well, you've got relentless charge. Want to charge through something and kill it? Elims! I dunno... the only thing the list is missing is Orin. The free solos really solve a lot of problems, and make the list sing. I would normally never spend the 6 points on Yuri, and you're giving up Eliminators and a Kodiak upgrade to do so...but Treewalker is just awesome. What do you all think?
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 25, 2017 22:14:19 GMT
Let's see. Is it better than non-Theme? No, but WG also isn't. Non-theme allows Bokurs, Orin and Maddy so it's kind of a sidegrade.
Is it better than WG theme? Well, you can take Behemoth and you can take Seers. Kossites/Kayazy/Yuri&co don't offer any advantages over what you can take in WG theme, if anything long ranged infantry is better than melee infantry for B3 since it removes opponent's support or solos that inconvenience B3 himself. Removing AD? Never had an issue with AD with B3. Behemoth? A welcome addition, but kinda minor. Seers? Now those guys are interesting with B3, especially for free. They allow you to never drop your camp and still have 1 jack loaded. So you can load 1 with B3, 1 with Seers and B3 still have 4 foc left to camp/upkeep/energize. While sac pawn is great I would prefer 2 additional focus over several sac pawn grunts (provided 1 shield guard is still there for stuff like Eyriss).
I think something like this warrants testing: B3 - Rager - jacks up to 75 pts - dog 2xfree Seer free Marksman Widowmakers Mechaniks
Seers are probably not enough to beat both Advance move and sac pawn in usefulness, but it may happen. Maybe it will even be worth it to mashall 2 shooting jacks with them, ranged magical damage is surely something not available to WG theme.
Without Seers I don't see a reason to pick this theme over WG one.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 25, 2017 23:08:25 GMT
Let's see. Is it better than non-Theme? No, but WG also isn't. Non-theme allows Bokurs, Orin and Maddy so it's kind of a sidegrade. Is it better than WG theme? Well, you can take Behemoth and you can take Seers. Kossites/Kayazy/Yuri&co don't offer any advantages over what you can take in WG theme, if anything long ranged infantry is better than melee infantry for B3 since it removes opponent's support or solos that inconvenience B3 himself. Removing AD? Never had an issue with AD with B3. Behemoth? A welcome addition, but kinda minor. Seers? Now those guys are interesting with B3, especially for free. They allow you to never drop your camp and still have 1 jack loaded. So you can load 1 with B3, 1 with Seers and B3 still have 4 foc left to camp/upkeep/energize. While sac pawn is great I would prefer 2 additional focus over several sac pawn grunts (provided 1 shield guard is still there for stuff like Eyriss). I think something like this warrants testing: B3 - Rager - jacks up to 75 pts - dog 2xfree Seer free Marksman Widowmakers Mechaniks Seers are probably not enough to beat both Advance move and sac pawn in usefulness, but it may happen. Maybe it will even be worth it to mashall 2 shooting jacks with them, ranged magical damage is surely something not available to WG theme. Without Seers I don't see a reason to pick this theme over WG one. Well, the main problem with this is that the forge seers aren't released yet! I'm wondering if PP will follow through and release models on a faster schedule. So...along the lines of what you're thinking, maybe something like this. Double marshaled destroyers plus the Scouts for ranged shenanigans. I think Destroyers do a pretty nice job at taking care of annoying backfield solos. (I hadn't noticed how well Jack Marshalls can Marshall ranged jacks). Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22 - War Argus - War Dog - PC: 3 - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Rager - PC: 11 - Kodiak - PC: 13 Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 0 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 - Destroyer - PC: 14 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 - Destroyer - PC: 14 Widowmaker Scouts - Leader & 3 Grunts: 8 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 THEME: Jaws of the Wolf
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Post by redoctober on Mar 25, 2017 23:16:29 GMT
A big disadvantage of jack marshaling is the inability to shake a condition like a battlegroup jack can. It's a trade off but something people need to realize before dropping two jack marshaled jacks.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 26, 2017 1:16:01 GMT
I agree. But I still believe the destroyer is one of the best targets.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 26, 2017 1:20:10 GMT
A big disadvantage of jack marshaling is the inability to shake a condition like a battlegroup jack can. It's a trade off but something people need to realize before dropping two jack marshaled jacks. I totally didn't know that. I thought you just needed to spend the focus to Shake, but I just looked it up in Warroom and you need to do this during your warcaster's control phase. Good to know. Thanks for pointing out that pro tip.
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 26, 2017 9:07:59 GMT
I also tried to make some lists with Butcher3 in theme. Yes, you can have something nice, also because of the free focuses and the additional magic weapons, but i don't know if i can give up the bokurs, Maddy, Orin and Kell.
I think i'll wait for the MoW theme to consider the forge seer
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 26, 2017 17:05:55 GMT
I think i'll wait for the MoW theme to consider the forge seer Khadorjack, I think we need to try it with Karchev. He wanted to bring all of those jacks anyway, and doesn't really need support (outside of mechanics or a Tinker).
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 26, 2017 18:15:59 GMT
I don't know, i think the most notably thing this guy does is giving our jacks magic weapons. The sad thing is that he can do it only marshalling them, and even if marshalling+empower is a nice combo, we have too many in-battlegroup spells and mechanism to think about marshalling.
Of course magic weapons is not a kharchev problem, and empower is nice with him, only (IMO) absolutely not worth 4 points. The only way is actually taking them for free in theme, even if you have to drop all the mercenaries.
Yeah, i think you are right armchair, kharchev is the only caster (maybe Hark also?) that can use them properly in theme, but without marshalling. Also, i don't like the theme very much (repo on mechs is a bit pointless, plus we don't have acces to our journeyman warcaster, i think the WGI theme is more a warjack theme that this one, even if negate AD is nice with karchev)
What list were you thinking about with him? I assume you want to fit the behemot in it?
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Post by warriorofiron on Mar 26, 2017 19:19:58 GMT
This is what I'm looking at with karchev, don't know how well it'll play yet but I feel like it may be a solid list!
War Room Army
Khador - Karchev
Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 4 / 4 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army
Karchev the Terrible - WJ: +30 - Marauder - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Marauder - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Marauder - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Marauder - PC: 10 - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Behemoth - PC: 25 - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Juggernaut - PC: 12
Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 0 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0
Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 3 Grunts: 3 - Battle Mechanik Officer - PC: 0
THEME: Jaws of the Wolf ---
GENERATED : 03/26/2017 15:19:03 BUILD ID : 2038.17-03-15
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Post by ratrek on Mar 26, 2017 20:21:21 GMT
Well, this theme is off to a good start. It's already won it's first event! Jeff won the Seattle Open this weekend using Jaws and the Riflespam theme.
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 26, 2017 20:53:16 GMT
Well, this theme is off to a good start. It's already won it's first event! Jeff won the Seattle Open this weekend using Jaws and the Riflespam theme. Where can we find the lists?
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Post by ratrek on Mar 26, 2017 21:07:42 GMT
Well, this theme is off to a good start. It's already won it's first event! Jeff won the Seattle Open this weekend using Jaws and the Riflespam theme. Where can we find the lists? They aren't posted anywhere yet. And as it turns out, I got it wrong. It was the Legion of Steel theme he used along with the Winterguard one. My bad.
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