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Post by sand20go on May 3, 2017 16:21:11 GMT
I'm also inclined to suggest Sorcha1 out of themes, with at least a couple of units of Doomreavers. She has a high enough DEF to be fairly safe from the Cryx shooting and can Freezing Grip revenant crew fairly reliably to help tip the odds Possibly. I think the below is correct. Sorscha starts at Def 18/20 with Wind Rush and Fog in place. ARM 15. 17 boxes 1) Bone chicken runs in. 2) Denny moves up and feats. 21 inches threat WITHOUT charging. 24 with. Wind Rushed Sorshsa now at Def 16/18; ARM 13 3) Crippling Grasp up next. Needs 9/11 with a boost. Def now 14/16.; ARM 11 4) Ghost shots from the Rev. Crew Rifleman now need 10s to hit her. Since they don't want to miss lets say 3 man CRAs to need 7s (ignoring Fog). Those would be at Dice +2. So for each focus we are looking on average of 4 points after the overboost. It is doable. You absolutely have to play S. VERY aggressively because you can not afford to also eat phantom Hellslinger AND ESPECIALLY death chill pistols which can be a huge a problem if they activate prior to Rifledudes and thus eliminate the need to CRA. Thus you have to catch as many as possible in S's feat and then have magical weapons ready to eliminate. I think the doom reavers are a BIG time trap. Yes. Magical weapon. But they have "lets get souls!" on their heads for the pistol wraiths/phantom slinger and you REALLY don't want to give those models the opportunity to boost or reload. Yes. _IF_ PW need to move and you have fog up the odds shift in your favor. But the moment that they do get a soul they can start to fuel up the engine, boosting to hit and getting the soul back as they start to pick off your doomies in quick order. |
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Post by sand20go on May 3, 2017 16:42:22 GMT
Having not encountered the theme yet, what makes Ghost Fleet so deadly without an overwhelming amount of Magic Weapon? Denny's debuff swing on the feat turn and then Rifle shots (or even Rev crew shots). Phew Phew Phew and you are dead. |
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Post by auraco on May 3, 2017 16:45:46 GMT
Don't forget about scourge, if Sorscha gets knocked down, she's dead. Scourge doesn't even have to hit, it it can just drift on her and still knock her down.
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Post by sand20go on May 3, 2017 16:52:39 GMT
Don't forget about scourge, if Sorscha gets knocked down, she's dead. Scourge doesn't even have to hit, it it can just drift on her and still knock her down. Yup. Forgot that. I do think that puts Denny "all in" with Scourage costing 4 and CG costing 2. But she definitely can fish for it even with the drift. |
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Post by Voodoogk on May 3, 2017 17:40:11 GMT
Z2 isn't really an option.. Specifically outriders. I thought that at first but the reality is with ghost shot the rifles are really good at killing outriders, they do a cra and on average they kill one per unit a turn.. They see everything so nowhere to hide. You think maybe just kill them all but that's not an option either since they come back without rfp or killing the whole unit. But the army takes up so much board space you can't kill them in a single turn. Which is also why you can't just a assassinate with z2, usually the opposing caster is too deep behind models to get there as well. Strakh2 might be better since Quicken makes hitting less likely. Still 9s are going to happen and you will lose rifles. You don't need a ton of magic attacks for ghost fleet but I think incorporeal spam is going to be more prevelant as well. B3 with rfp and marshaled destroyers was decentish.. The spriggan was denny tech that ended up only hurting a stalker. Do you guys really think I didn't think of z2 first?  |
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Post by sand20go on May 3, 2017 17:46:44 GMT
Z2 isn't really an option.. Specifically outriders. I thought that at first but the reality is with ghost shot the rifles are really good at killing outriders, they do a cra and on average they kill one per unit a turn.. They see everything so nowhere to hide. You think maybe just kill them all but that's not an option either since they come back without rfp or killing the whole unit. But the army takes up so much board space you can't kill them in a single turn. Which is also why you can't just a assassinate with z2, usually the opposing career is too deep behind models to get there as well. That was my thinking and why Quicken sounds worth trying. Now they need a hard 11 to hit.....or a 9 on a 2 man or an 8 on a 3 man _PRIOR_ to Denny landing debuffs. At Speed 11 they are extremely fast and a LOT harder to hit with Crippling to debuff so can create big time problems on a flank and force denny, even with a 14 inch control range, to make some choices. PLUS at SP 11 you can actually go out and find hills to stand on and still be in play to further buff out your ponies defensive options. I am sad about S2 being our main RFP caster and, with grymken on the horizon, RFP is going to be all the more important. I guess the good news is that if they eliminate D&C you can play her solely as an anti-recussion gal and focus attention there while your "main" list is built without having to worry about that. |
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Post by DemonCalibre on May 3, 2017 19:24:30 GMT
Z2 isn't really an option.. Specifically outriders. I thought that at first but the reality is with ghost shot the rifles are really good at killing outriders, they do a cra and on average they kill one per unit a turn.. They see everything so nowhere to hide. You think maybe just kill them all but that's not an option either since they come back without rfp or killing the whole unit. But the army takes up so much board space you can't kill them in a single turn. Which is also why you can't just a assassinate with z2, usually the opposing caster is too deep behind models to get there as well. Strakh2 might be better since Quicken makes hitting less likely. Still 9s are going to happen and you will lose rifles. You don't need a ton of magic attacks for ghost fleet but I think incorporeal spam is going to be more prevelant as well. B3 with rfp and marshaled destroyers was decentish.. The spriggan was denny tech that ended up only hurting a stalker. Do you guys really think I didn't think of z2 first? Yeah the Z2 match up with much better then I thought it would when we played. |
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 3, 2017 19:50:49 GMT
It's things like incorporeal CRA-ing models that ignore LOS and come back after you kill them that make me wonder about this game sometimes. Ah well, PP's been much better about toning down broken stuff lately, perhaps this theme will be balanced better soon.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578 
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Post by Juris on May 3, 2017 20:14:18 GMT
Don't forget about scourge, if Sorscha gets knocked down, she's dead. Scourge doesn't even have to hit, it it can just drift on her and still knock her down. Yup. Forgot that. I do think that puts Denny "all in" with Scourage costing 4 and CG costing 2. But she definitely can fish for it even with the drift. If Deneghra can get an arc node to within 5" of Sorscha (exact number is greater than 5"), then she can auto-knockdown with Scourge. Then cast Parasite. Then Feat. Knocked down and -5 armor (Parasite and Feat), what chance does Sorscha have? Don't plan to "tank it out" with Sorscha, because unless you neutralize the arc nodes first it's bound to fail. As for magical weapons, they aren't really that important against Ghost Fleet. There is only one incorporeal unit (Blackbane's Ghost Raiders), and then up to 5 Incorporeal solos (2 Pistol Wraiths, 2 Machine Wraiths, 1 Hellslinger), depending upon the build; importantly, Blackbane's Ghost Raiders only recur if they are able to kill living warrior models, and then only if Blackbane isn't dead. There's also the possibility of the Wraith Engine, but that doesn't seem to be as common. Bottom line, as long as you have some magical weapon, you're fine on that account. You don't need to try to build a list with a whole toolbox full of magical weapons; it's not jut that necessary. What you do want are guns that can scalpel out the hideouts in units where ever possible, as well as a high volume of attacks. |
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Post by Voodoogk on May 3, 2017 20:52:56 GMT
Bottom line, as long as you have some magical weapon, you're fine on that account. You don't need to try to build a list with a whole toolbox full of magical weapons; it's not jut that necessary. What you do want are guns that can scalpel out the hideouts in units where ever possible, as well as a high volume of attacks. Actually the wraith engine is currently the best piece of tech in there, but it will probably be less so once the incorp models lose immunity to blast damage after the CID. Hard to say what will happen at that point for sure, the cryx players are tricksy, but I think the double BE goes away. |
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Post by DemonCalibre on May 3, 2017 21:20:49 GMT
It's things like incorporeal CRA-ing models that ignore LOS and come back after you kill them that make me wonder about this game sometimes. Ah well, PP's been much better about toning down broken stuff lately, perhaps this theme will be balanced better soon. The Pirates that are CRAing aren't Ghosts, Only Blackbanes are ghosts, the Pirates with the rifles are just dudes that I get a d3+1 back every turn. |
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 3, 2017 21:50:12 GMT
Actually the wraith engine is currently the best piece of tech in there, but it will probably be less so once the incorp models lose immunity to blast damage after the CID. Hard to say what will happen at that point for sure, the cryx players are tricksy, but I think the double BE goes away. None of the games in which I've faced Ghost Fleet involved a Wraith Engine, though I have played against it. If you are encountering it a lot then I agree that bringing a specific tool for it is probably a good idea. However, how much of a threat does it actually present to your average Khador list? Can you just wait for it to attack before going after it? It brings Dark Shroud to a list but otherwise it is two POW15's (POW17's from Dark Shroud) without any boosting mechanic. While those attacks will mess up a Warpwolf Stalker, how much of a concern are they really (excluding assassination potential) for Khador? That musing aside, if the Wraith Engine does scare you, then I think that you want to select non-infantry options to deal with it. Doom Reavers (as someone else mentioned) will get torn apart by that list and actually possibly fuel the recursion. Something like Behemoth on a Forge Seer seems like a great option here. You can kill the Wraith Engine with two turns of shooting, or a single easy turn of melee. I can also see that the Wraith Engine providing blast immunity to otherwise squishy swarms is a problem for Khador (who relies on blast like Cygnar relies on electricity to kill swarms); however, as you pointed it, that will soon no longer be the case. When that happens, how much of a problem will the Wraith Engine be for a typical Khadoran list? |
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Post by smoothcriminal on May 4, 2017 1:02:39 GMT
I remember Sorscha 2 was absolutely annihilating Reclaimer by rotating shatterstorm between 2 wg units last time I was trying her. Might work against Fleet due to 22" threat rfp'ing rifles.
Wg theme gives good protection against ranged assassination. The main problem will be lack of magical weapons, but hopefully S2+Malakov+objective is enough magical damage to prevent Cryx from contesting with solos at least. WGs will eat the blackbanes charge, but they can spray back quite well even if only handful remains.
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Post by auraco on May 4, 2017 1:18:01 GMT
The problem with that is that you can't rely on the objective, not every scenario has one...
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 4, 2017 4:08:55 GMT
It's things like incorporeal CRA-ing models that ignore LOS and come back after you kill them that make me wonder about this game sometimes. Ah well, PP's been much better about toning down broken stuff lately, perhaps this theme will be balanced better soon. The Pirates that are CRAing aren't Ghosts, Only Blackbanes are ghosts, the Pirates with the rifles are just dudes that I get a d3+1 back every turn. Ah, that's a little less silly then. Cool. |
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