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Post by Voodoogk on May 2, 2017 15:20:54 GMT
Congratulations. By the sound of it, they should award you the Stumbling Drunk trophy, somehow you made it almost to the end with no idea exactly how you got there. Looks like Zerkova is about to go way way up in everyone's books. I had a good plan for every fight but the lich1, that was luck ill give you. Third game was a plan even if I came up with it after round 1. I don't think I did too shabby considering I cobbled that list together the day before though and don't have a local cryx player. I even had a good plan for the last one... Just didn't follow it through
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Definitely not Welshhoppo
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Post by Definitely not Welshhoppo on May 2, 2017 16:13:02 GMT
Well I think that is a decent name for a trophy anyway.
So I'm going to pop the question, what can we do that is good into Ghost Fleet but doesn't suck Stryker's left nipple against everything else.
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Post by Voodoogk on May 2, 2017 16:25:37 GMT
Butch3, Ruin, 2 marshalls and 2 destroyers was enough to give a decent shot.. Lich 1 is going to continue to be a problem for kayazy though. If you want to run them in it that might just be the reality right now.
I like Zerkova1 but she cant do all the heavy lifting alone, and I think butcher2 is actually a decent idea as well if you can control him well, not being able to impending doom really limits what you can do with b3, but b2 does not have that problem.
Outside of those ideas I'm currently not sure. I think it's going to be a hard matchup every time you bring a theme force into it for a while. And theme forces are fast becoming the only way to play competitively in a lot of peoples opinions.
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Post by sand20go on May 2, 2017 16:45:35 GMT
Butch3, Ruin, 2 marshalls and 2 destroyers was enough to give a decent shot.. Lich 1 is going to continue to be a problem for kayazy though. If you want to run them in it that might just be the reality right now. I like Zerkova1 but she cant do all the heavy lifting alone, and I think butcher2 is actually a decent idea as well if you can control him well, not being able to impending doom really limits what you can do with b3, but b2 does not have that problem. Outside of those ideas I'm currently not sure. I think it's going to be a hard matchup every time you bring a theme force into it for a while. And theme forces are fast becoming the only way to play competitively in a lot of peoples opinions. OK. here is my latest idea. Not sure of the pair but I want to play this into ghost fleet (and some others) and see how it fairs. FEELS like it should be decent. Bit pillowfisted but last stand helps "solve" that problem fairly well as you play the attrition game. War Room Army Khador - New Army Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army Assault Kommander Strakhov & Kommandos - WJ: +22 - Assault Kommander Strakhov & Kommandos (Cont.) - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Marauder - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) Kell Bailoch - PC: 5 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 4 - Decimator - PC: 16 Greylord Outriders - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Greygore Boomhowler & Co. - Boomhowler & 9 Grunts: 17 - Koldun Kapitan Valachev - PC: 4 Great Bears of the Gallowswood - Volkov, Kolsk, & Yarovich: 9 I think debatable is the inclusion of the Forge Seer/Decimator package. It is largely there for the Wraith Engine. You could drop it and add in A&H (so Boomies/Bears weapons are magical as well) and then the Widowmaker package (or Min Uhlans and Widows for some additional hitting power). Interestingly, the Rune Axes on the Ponies are magical and each one under last stand with an impact attack are doing on average 8 points of damage to the Engine. Ponies should be able to totally murderate the pirates and Strak with stealth helps keep himself alive from the ghost shots. The Hellslinger CAN fish for critics on Grievous Wounds into boomies......_IF_ alive....since the Ponies have a longer threat range even BEFORE we consider the funnies of them under Quicken. Or maybe even Alexia1.....and kinda chuckle at the idea of taking over blackbane and walking him out of command range and hitting on something important.
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Post by Voodoogk on May 2, 2017 17:00:53 GMT
I think I like the demolisher better than the decimator right now, two initials, two guns, same pow, 2 less range so no biggie since its a clam and can stand there more safely to get to the turn it wants to shoot. Also its a clam with girded so has so much utility its silly for the same price. But I do like a marshalled jack for this.
I've killed a battle engine without last standing the ponies before so yeah its not terrible until they bring darrag rathe to knock them down to pow 8, then you're probably going to want something with more kick.
So in the hypothetical situation where they take out your jack marshal with an early spray (denny1) you might be in trouble unless you brought A&H. You've got me at a bit of a loss though since its strakh2, I haven't assembled him yet, so not sure if taking him out of theme is going to yield a competitive list elsewhere. None of the khador players who brought him made it to sunday.
Try it out and let me know, would love to stop playing butcher against cryx, he has to play so far back.
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Post by sand20go on May 2, 2017 17:15:10 GMT
I think I like the demolisher better than the decimator right now, two initials, two guns, same pow, 2 less range so no biggie since its a clam and can stand there more safely to get to the turn it wants to shoot. Also its a clam with girded so has so much utility its silly for the same price. But I do like a marshalled jack for this. I've killed a battle engine without last standing the ponies before so yeah its not terrible until they bring darrag rathe to knock them down to pow 8, then you're probably going to want something with more kick. So in the hypothetical situation where they take out your jack marshal with an early spray (denny1) you might be in trouble unless you brought A&H. You've got me at a bit of a loss though since its strakh2, I haven't assembled him yet, so not sure if taking him out of theme is going to yield a competitive list elsewhere. None of the khador players who brought him made it to sunday. Try it out and let me know, would love to stop playing butcher against cryx, he has to play so far back. I will. Try to get a game in against both Trolls and Skorne with it as well since I don't think it can play into Cygnar. I am kicking myself not bringing him to masters - he feels like a Beast into a LOT of matchups but has a "high'ish" turn (or 2?) ahead bar because you need to avoid his squishy side. He is RIDICULOUSLY good in theme but I am not sure he doesn't overlap a LOT with some other casters.
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Post by auraco on May 2, 2017 17:18:34 GMT
Maybe there is something I'm not seeing, but why boomhowler?
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Post by welshhoppo on May 2, 2017 17:31:41 GMT
Maybe there is something I'm not seeing, but why boomhowler? IR is hilarious.
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Post by sand20go on May 2, 2017 17:33:30 GMT
Maybe there is something I'm not seeing, but why boomhowler? ARM 17 with IR. On the feat turn (ARM 20) (assuming you don't need to fell call Calcophony) he likely has sung the song of of "Old School Tough" (tough after being knocked down). On the next turn Boomhowler sings the song of "stand back up" and now your unit is ready to go murderate things - especially should you have cycled on Last stand. Plus they can shoot and kill a LOT of pirates (or in some of my other match ups Knights Exemplars to force idiotic Harby to marty a bunch before the quickend ponies go in and spray her ass to death. Of course the stupid book. So you have to shoot THAT thing as well way too many times.)
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Post by auraco on May 2, 2017 17:44:32 GMT
Kill pirate with their rat 4 shots? I don't get it it takes 9 to hit a pirate, and if you don't clear out a unit a lot can come back each turn. Also killing pirate with last standed models seems counterproductive to me. I think it's possible to build a list to fight against ghost fleet, I just don't think Strakhov2 is the one who should be running that. The Zerkovas the vlads, the sorscha and to some extent the butchers all seem like they could do better. Going against ghost fleet with melee is a bad idea in my experiences, you want some shooting or magic and a caster to help with that, Strakhov2 doesn't do much for that. Yeah he will help you army survive longuer, but it seems to me he will just make the battle last longer without changing the outcome, to change the outcome you need to shoot what can be shot in the ghost fleet army.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 2, 2017 17:55:41 GMT
Im thinking, Could Devastators be good against Ghost Fleet? They are pretty much immune to everything, and they can just run up and engage the enemy army with the threat of either trampling over them slowly, or just exploding and wiping them all off the map.
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Post by sand20go on May 2, 2017 18:13:36 GMT
Kill pirate with their rat 4 shots? I don't get it it takes 9 to hit a pirate, and if you don't clear out a unit a lot can come back each turn. Also killing pirate with last standed models seems counterproductive to me. I think it's possible to build a list to fight against ghost fleet, I just don't think Strakhov2 is the one who should be running that. The Zerkovas the vlads, the sorscha and to some extent the butchers all seem like they could do better. Going against ghost fleet with melee is a bad idea in my experiences, you want some shooting or magic and a caster to help with that, Strakhov2 doesn't do much for that. Yeah he will help you army survive longuer, but it seems to me he will just make the battle last longer without changing the outcome, to change the outcome you need to shoot what can be shot in the ghost fleet army. Boomies SHOULD be largely able to AIM with zepher. Either repo'ing up, or repoing back. Pirates in MELEE, with Gang (and again, see above - why are there ANY left to charge with Aiming and Repo'ing back Boomies) Again, you have ponies in there as well.
The problem with shooting Khador is that absent Z2 (Banishing ward) or Z1 (Hex blast) you have the Crippling Grasp problem which turns the sadly underperforming Rev crew into murderating machines. Cacophony ain't perfect (in a long shot) but works OK to make it harder for her to land.
And while Z1 and Z2 CAN build SOMETHING for this you then face a dilemma - there general inability to tune up their armor to crush any sort of armor and thus you are left with 1 list covering just cryx and your second list required to cover everything else.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on May 2, 2017 18:26:55 GMT
Great work Voodoogk! I was happy to see you make the top table and sad I couldn't stick around to see the game. I'm also glad to see my Spriggan on a Masters Table past round 1
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Post by borderprince on May 3, 2017 6:21:38 GMT
I like Zerkova1 but she cant do all the heavy lifting alone I think Z1 in Jaws of the Hunting with Wolves tm might work as an anti-Ghost Fleet but also reasonable all-comers list. How about something like: Z1 -Juggernaut -Juggernaut -Marauder Forgeseer -Destroyer Forgeseer -Destroyer Max Kayazy Assassins + Underboss Eliminators x2 Widowmakers Marksman You've got a respectable amount of fairly hard-hitting magical AoEs from the destroyers and Forgeseers, hard-hitting jacks and stealthy infantry. Z1 gives her toolbox. Should work into most gunlines with the cloud wall, as well as Ghost Fleet. The magic attacks would also be really valuable against Haley3 for removing the echoes.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 3, 2017 7:13:00 GMT
Interestingly, the Rune Axes on the Ponies are magical and each one under last stand with an impact attack are doing on average 8 points of damage to the Engine. The impact attacks aren't magical are they? Probably a stupid idea, but is there any merit to running Strakhov 1 with Doomreavers? Sentry on a marshaled Destroyer/Behemoth means an additional magical shot each turn, A&H with a big (stealthy thanks to Occultation?) shooting unit firing at something Torch has de-stealthed, murderponies getting battle wizard from the Koldun Lord can charge forwards under feat to get a threat-range extension (they should be able to reliably trigger the spray as the charge attack is boosted right?), Kell and Orin... ugh, dunno if it would work and dunno if it would have game against anything else, just throwing it out there.
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