gordo
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Post by gordo on Feb 18, 2019 18:52:23 GMT
For that to work, the other themes would have to be functional. Having said that, I hear some Kallus 2 lists run Children of the Character Nephilim. Give up. Play PT. Ah, I love theme forces in my life. I love having to buy another $1000 worth of models just so I can play in theme. I love having an army of mismatched models that don't go into any theme forces together. And I love my shelf for bearing such a heavy burden.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Feb 18, 2019 18:33:21 GMT
For that to work, the other themes would have to be functional.
Having said that, I hear some Kallus 2 lists run Children of the Character Nephilim.
Give up. Play PT.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Feb 11, 2019 14:55:47 GMT
That was well said Gordo, thank you. I just played my first reworked mak3da list as a joke recently and actually liked it. I spammed savages because A. Sometimes spam works and B. When else would I use the 6 I own? What I learned from it was that 2 aren't bad. But don't spam them haha. I haven't played xerxis 1 in a while, I have difficulty with focus 5 casters-i get far too greedy. I'll have to craft a list and put him back on the table though. Are cetrati with vorkesh useful under him? And bloodspatter I like the idea of just making sure list that tries not to lose. Some of my best games were ones where I was like "this dude across from me is way better of a player than I, let's try not to lose as badly" and end up playing really well. I should try building a list to suite that and see what I learned from from it. So the "Skorne coach" in my area forced me to play Cetrati with X1. I absolutely despise them but... They do force the question well: Crack through this or we will end you. Simply put, a brick of them escorts X1 and Tibbers up the center of the field, providing both the cover they need to crush whatever the enemy puts up. Thanks to Vorkesh they can't just cripple them with spells either. The list, however, REALLY REALLY needs Swordsmen in it. You need something that absolutely CRUSHES offensively to kill enough and does it well for their points, because Cetrat are crazy expensive for your little they ever do. Usually I prefer Karax for this role instead, but the are too many specific anti 1-wound infantry techs out there for them to really be relied on like Cetrati can. TLDR: yes Cetrati can be good as long as the rest of your list is better (includes Swordsmen)
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Feb 8, 2019 18:11:48 GMT
To answer your earlier question, I consider Skorne to be largely an "answers" question with one important question: Can you kill enough of us to prevent us from killing you? As a faction we rarely have problems getting through your defenses and killing you. Occasionally defense spam works and that's about it. So we have bring as many answers as we can to your control-tech:
Clouds or Stealth? Extoller Tough no KD? Masters of War Soul-collecting? Supreme Guardian Place/push? Battle Engines, Exalted, Tibbers
So on. My favorite "question" casters are the Xerxeses. Both ram a may like nasty question up the field: Kill enough or we will end you.
So my pairings are usually a caster who asks that simple but tough to answer question (usually Xerxeses, but now Makeda3 also) followed by an "answers" list (Rasheth, usually)
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Feb 8, 2019 13:48:38 GMT
I've been wanting to to try Rasheth with Exalted for some time now. Given that list, I'd be worrird about having my SGs properly covered by Agonizers. Have you had an issue with it?
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Feb 6, 2019 20:37:25 GMT
Would you share your list?
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gordo
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Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jan 22, 2019 19:58:41 GMT
This is probably the best way to promote investment in a narrative campaign. Once people are attached, keep them invested with campaign specific scenarios (and lists?)
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gordo
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My star is green?
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Post by gordo on Jan 14, 2019 22:35:15 GMT
gordo - I have heard of a list where you take Thag2 and Blightbringer with the intent to caster tank the opposing army. I imagine you could build this but it seems like it still would be taken apart by a savvy opponent. But you make a good point about other defensive options simply being better than Ornery even for this situation. Though Counterblast does allow a ranged option and before the model takes damage, it usually suffers from the same pain points of pour stats on legion models. frumiousbandersnatch - I tend to think even if the savvy player has to send something in to 'eat up the animus', at least that helps consume resources of the other player's army. At least that would be something. But I wholly agree with you. I would rather Ornery change to a native ability, those beasts have some sort of rider to make it impactful or just change it all together. The "let's make Thags2 a super star" list has always been a silly pipe dream, but he is awesome fun all the same. I tried it for a bit: Chieftain for Veteran Leader, Blightbringer for bonuses, Protector for more bonuses, Hellmouth and Seraph to get him there faster, and then whatever defensive animus you want. It still loses, hard, but it makes you feel good.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jan 14, 2019 14:12:37 GMT
Favorite: depth of tactics available in both list building/pairing and on the table
Worst: Pass/fail, non interactive mechanics like Stealth, Incorporeal, certain recursion mechanics like Ghost Fleet and Clockwork Legion. Either you put an answer in your list or you didn't (and will likely lose due to its absence)
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jan 11, 2019 19:23:25 GMT
Agreed. I don't want to derail this conversation about the Neph Protector (unless we want to go there). My main question was around my lack of knowledge on other factions/interactions. In what situations: Would you want a light warbeast to use Ornery? Would you want a caster to use Ornery? It sounds like, in a general scope, Ornery is not impactful enough on most light warbeasts due to lower stats than heavy. Would a heavy have better use out of Ornery (does any heavy warbeast/jack have this and/or what is its perceived usefullness?) Trust me, I can go really off the rails about how to help the Neph Protector - even if Ornery was better, unless it helped the Neph Protector protect better - I don't know if I wouldn't prefer something else (Safeguard or some other knockdown defense). By a novice glance - Ornery should ward off some attacks (or be some sort of awesome attack before the model dies). On a light warbeast, I'd want it be at least PS 12, have rng 2, and at least MAT 7. This way it can be reasonably be expected to hit and kill some infantry. If it were on a caster, he'd need to have decent survivability tech (good armor and boxes) and either a means of casting this for free (Harmonious Exaltation, Attuned Spirit, etc.) or added incentive to get hurt (Blood Spawn, Battle Driven, etc). He would also need to reasonably want to play without beasts that have a better animus to cast on themselves instead (which is where Thagrosh2 falls down, considering Counterblast, Countercharge, Excessive Healing, and Spiny Growth are all in faction and all usually better).
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jan 11, 2019 16:59:05 GMT
In my meta, we see pretty much PT only, and the differences are really what caster you dropped into it. Like the pairing will be "Kallus PT" and "Anamag PT", or "Thagrosh PT" and "Fyanna PT"
Occasionally you will see someone play a beast focused list as their "off list", but those get played only like 1 out of 5 games.
PT lists all look the same and are kinda boring and themselves thematically uninteresting (if I wanted heavy infantry, Legion is the last faction I would look to). The rest of the themes are mediocre at best unless I run a build that requires 2-3 huge based 100+ dollar kits... So... Skorne it is.
Aside: I find it amusing/ironic/depressing that my Skorne lists are mostly better served to run our huge bases, but even if I don't they are still better than their Legion equivalents. Except, of course, heavy infantry, which is even more ironic because Skorne is an army that (to me) thematically screams heavy infantry.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jan 10, 2019 22:19:52 GMT
In my meta, Crucible Guard is described as "Cygnar, but good". For those of you who already felt that Cygnar was good... Umm...
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jan 10, 2019 22:16:58 GMT
I understand that most animii should be niche to help stifle unforseen interactions that would cause balance issues. I also acknowledge that not every animii should be the most awesome thing ever - balance in all things, eh? But Ornery for Legion (I don't have the knowledge for others) is not a great option. I wonder what casters WOULD want this in other factions. If a faction has a caster with some disruption (like knockdown) to prevent any further attacks - I could definitely see myself valuing it more than I do now. For 'getting lucky and knocking out a system' - the luck part is directly tied to the melee stats of the jack/beast. Again, in legion, it is not high enough for me to even consider it. Other factions may have better options. For countering the Alpha... this goes into defensive stats to be able to survive the alpha intact enough to swing (effectively). In Legion, I think the Neph Protector is sturdy enough to absorb a charge from a Large (barring dice spike) and it (often?) will get to swing back - but I know in a mirror match, I wouldn't fear the attack THAT much (because you can't boost it). So... Ornery may be niche. Are there caster/beast combinations that make it really sing or is this a case where it is just not good enough? I mean, I agree with you in that Ornery is utter garbage on a Nephilim Protector, but we're really talking about a problem with the Protector, not the animus. There's a reason no one plays Saeryn...
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gordo
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My star is green?
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Post by gordo on Jan 10, 2019 16:31:13 GMT
From what I've heard and what I think people are playing, you can bring back the rest of Exalted shield guards.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jan 10, 2019 14:32:29 GMT
Like most defensive animi, or really most animii in general, it's primary usage is intentionally niche. In this case, you use it when you have nothing else to attack and you have the fury to spend. Usually the best you can hope for is it kills an infantry dude or tacks on a couple of extra damage. In SOME cases with some casters it works great: see Zaadesh2. In others, it works decently as a deterrent against low-mid armor: see Makeda2.
This is basically how they intentionally designed all but the most "faction defining" animii, as they stated in the beginning of mk3, because they didn't want to have to factor in all their various animii when calculating the points and balance of war beasts.
Is it better this way? YMMV. I think so.
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