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Post by Ianassa on Jul 7, 2018 8:24:15 GMT
I love these conversion, looking great. Man I want a bombardier bombshell too... I'm painting a brand new Armoured Corps force with a paint scheme stolen from 40k Iron Warriors. This thread is inspiring enough that I might post my progress too.
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Post by Ianassa on Jul 7, 2018 8:16:38 GMT
Isn't the bombardier bombshell already an acceptable alternate to the CA, much like the blighter bather can be used as the spawning vessel and the druid gone wilder as a regular wilder?
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Post by Ianassa on Jul 6, 2018 8:20:18 GMT
As the title suggests:
Does she really come without the extra rockets/bombs that the unit has strapped on the right side shoulder pad? All my officers came without them, and she looks oddly naked next to her subordinates without them. Just wanted to know if there is a missing parts request to be made here or if I need to start converting
-Thanks in advance
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Post by Ianassa on Jul 6, 2018 8:11:08 GMT
I've played Vlad1 with 3 units of bombardiers and Aiyana & Holt with Valachev a couple of games and won most of them. The exact list is:
Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince [+28] - Marauder [11] - Spriggan [17] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4] Man-O-War Bombardiers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Bombardier Officer [0(5)] Man-O-War Bombardiers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Bombardier Officer [5] Man-O-War Bombardiers (max) [16]
After a few games I concluded the MACOM is probably not carrying his worth of 7 points in this list so I swapped him for max mechanics and a 3rd CA.
Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince [+28] - Marauder [11] - Spriggan [17] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Battle Mechaniks (max) [5] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4] Man-O-War Bombardiers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Bombardier Officer [0(5)] Man-O-War Bombardiers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Bombardier Officer [5] Man-O-War Bombardiers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Bombardier Officer [5]
If I owned a Gobber Tinker, I'd take him and keep the mechanics min. That would free the tankers from flag duty for actual work.
Opponents:
Cryx Gaspy3 slayer spam: won on time, but I was slightly ahead on attrition and scenario too. The match is not favorable if I must go second, my opponents playing his 2nd game with the list helped me out.
CoC Axis double TEP tripple Inverter: Lost on scenario on turn 7 after a bloody grind. I had some great initial success taking out two inverters with my feated heavies and concentrated shooting, but my opponents was very skilled and turned the game around after he got the TEPs cleared for some great shots on the bombardiers. Couldn't get enough damage on the remaining TEP after that, those nasty spawnable 3 bots... I don't think Armour Corp can make this match favorable, TEP's will one shot even shocktroopers half the time and the inverters all have chain weapons. The best I can think off is spamming demo corps for biggest damage for cheapest points and take some dragoons with maybe Vlad2 but I doubt it will be something the Axis player will regard as a bad matchup.
Trolls Doomshaper3 with a glacier and a sea king. Won on assassination. An absolute brainfart had me give up my marauder for no gain early on. I did get one turn of concentrated fire on the sea king, taking it out but then I didn't have enough models left to handle the second colossal and was loosing on scenario fast. Luckily my opponent left Dooms close enough for a couple of shots and the Sea king was on full fury, so Vlad casts S%P and kills the Axer personally taking out his last transfer target. After this Aiyana and Holt do their thing and the remaining bombardiers are happy to have arching fire.
Cygnar Striker 2 double stormlances. Won with assassination. I have to concede the 1st turn and know I'm in trouble. 1st salvo only take out 1-2 riders which is much less than I hoped so I feat and jam his army with my battlegroup to by me time. The gamble pays off, my opponents feats but can't kill the jacks off on the regular activations, leaving my right side bombardier force untouched. My left side is devastated by his ponies. On my turn I know I can get off around 5 shots on Stryker (can't recall the exact amount) thanks to arching fire. I'll begin with S&P, then check if Aiyana hits with the kiss first, a miss would see me consume my minifeats and blast his army. She connects so I go for the kill, Holt spikes on damage and nearly finishes the job himself, rest is easy.
List Design
If it's not self evident, I'm firing potentially 36 pow 16 rounds a turn with signs and portens. If he runs to engage, I'm MAT7 p+s 13 (15 with kiss), followed by a quickword shot, also with S&P. Also, my opponents has to deal with the fact that my army has a Man o War bombardier level badass look, while his don't.
Dissapointments The MACOM didn't feel like pulling his weight. Tactician is amazing, but in this list I'd rather take a third minifeat. Haven't had a game yet where I'd miss relentless charge of retaliatory strike.
Supression tankers have been surprisingly lackluster, but I admit they haven't seen the correct opponents to really have an opportunity to shine. They did take out the stone in the trollmach though, so not going to remove them anytime soon.
MVPs Aiyana and Holt. The list would be so much worse without them. While they're obviously in the list for the kiss and magic weapons, Holt has been amazing in nearly all games too.
Challenges Getting the kiss in without loosing Aiyana in return is the trickiest part. Thankfully Khador brings Valachev here for Zephyr. Also I've found that you don't get to make a solid minifeat turn with the bombardiers that often, probably because this list does not bring anything really to prevent your opponent from just engaging you quickly.
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Post by Ianassa on Jun 24, 2018 7:39:34 GMT
Like that G4 will be one of our better casters with a great ARM buff, and a buff to hitting and damage, plus he keeps ghost walk. Really nice, but will be tricky to keep him alive since he'll want to be up close to use hand of ice. He could be really fun to play. Really exited about myrmidon tweaks! Just the things I hoped for, and Moros got even more. Not sure if phoenix needs more MAT but I won't complain Destors could finally be worth it. I never thought they could get rid of the lance rule since their models so clearly carry extra lance heads, but like that they could pose some serious punch against heavy infantry. If I read the rule interactions right they still get to shoot a second shot even if the lance connects? Mage hunters are getting just the right amount of twist to make them have a fighting change. The pow 9s and 10s just couldn't really make it if it wasn't just the right kind of opponents. Too early to tell but combo strike and possible free 3iryss can potentially increase the amount of matches that theme can take on. Moros in the theme is welcome too. Invictor buff is just insane. They were fine as they were, I don't really understand where that is coming from but I take it. A little sad that sentinels are not mentioned. I really think they should go down to 1" reach and loose a point of two in cost. Still too good in internal faction balance as they are.
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Post by Ianassa on Jun 4, 2018 10:45:31 GMT
I've played 2HRT's with Elara2 quite much, and found them to be quite good there. They soften up heavies for the halbs who mights struggle bringing down tough targets after the minifeat, clear off annoying solos and you can place them on the edge of round zones once you've pushed beyond them with the halbs for some easy scenario points while still doing work. It's a pretty sweet deal for 8 points. They're also more reliable than the archers with the boosted shot. Just don't expect them to win you the game on their own, they're a 4 point gun after all.
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Post by Ianassa on May 12, 2018 5:29:52 GMT
I would love to see a theme that would fit with the lore from Mk2 wrath/colossals/retribution books. There are several mentionings of houseguard fighting as auxiliaries to some other main force, or the mage hunters acting as scouts/scirmishers but actively participating in the battles too.
My main which would be to see a theme of Ossyan's quest to find Nyssor and redeem his house. His force was a mix of houseguard and mage hunters. A strikeforce and the battle engine was specifically mentioned. Since it's house Vyre, naturally their jacks and units could fit in too. Not sure what the theme's role or benefits should be in conjunction with our already existing themes, but I'd like to one that actually has the mage hunters working with other troops.
The other cool battle was in Issyria's lore, where she, Vyros and Ossyan took the fight to Skorne. In that battle it was mentioned that no mage hunters were present, but house Nyarr and house Vyre joined their forces. Problem with a theme like that is what on earth is it supposed to exclude so that it wouldn't make legions of dawn obsolete in an instant.
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Post by Ianassa on May 12, 2018 5:04:20 GMT
I'm currently building a Khador MoW force for a second army and these are my beginning lists:
(Vladimir 1) Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince [+28] - Marauder [11] - Spriggan [17] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4] Man-O-War Bombardiers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Bombardier Officer [0(5)] Man-O-War Bombardiers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Bombardier Officer [5] Man-O-War Bombardiers (max) [16]
---
(Vladimir 2) Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Champion [+27] - Devastator [14] - Devastator [14] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14] - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
Both lists are pretty self explanitory. Vlad1 shoots everything off the board and can deal with Cryx, although slayer spams can be a challenge if Cryx get's the first turn. Vlad2's feat is simply bonkers good, especially with dragoons, but it can also be used with the tankers to shoot 4 arm24 large base models with bulldose up your opponents face. I'm not a fan of huge bases so that's a conscious handicap on not looking into the battle engines. I feel one could be good because Armoured corps can struggle with terrain.
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Post by Ianassa on Apr 12, 2018 8:03:42 GMT
Hello fellow pointy ears.
I was wondering: since metas can be wastly different from town to town and country to country, and not everyone is going to run up against every potential top-tier list. This of course affects how we prepare our own list pairs, especially since retribution is still, in my humble opinion, a faction that is better at answering questions than presenting them.
I'll give some context: In my local meta CoC, Cryx and Grymkin have been dominant in out tourneys and leagues, so I had to prepare my lists to have anwsers to TEP's, Axis in general, and swarms of nasty spells and deadly infantry. I didn't have to concern myself with electro-hell, circle or Skorne when preparing my lists. But when I leave my own meta for some larger tourneys, suddenly I might not cover all the potential hard matchups, and have to pray I dodge those should I go with my usual list pair.
So the question is: What kind of lists give you headache when preparing your list pair? I'm hoping we could create a map of those nasty scews and pairs that really make us up our own game.
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Post by Ianassa on Nov 21, 2017 14:08:48 GMT
Psychomonkey:
Your thoughts are great and definitely not all wrong, your points on when to feat are spot on. however I do think you are only looking at your side of the table too much without considering what your opponent can do. In a living the dream situation Issyria is exactly as capable as you describe, but when there is an opponent playing on the other side, things are often less rosy.
Arm 18 infantry is not just fine for strike forces, even with the feat on they'll only manage to break that arm around 50% of times. Relying on a magical feat turn is often a recipe for disaster. The game lasts for 7 rounds, and you will often be grinding on 6 of those. The problem of using them as melee grinders for the charge bonus brings the problem of their weak p+s 9 and their sad 1/2" melee range. Even with crusaders call their threat range is not that impressive. Not every opponent will feed you his heavies for 4-5 mage hunter charges under Issyria's feat. You need to work to get there and you will take casualties getting there, and once you are there grinding in the melee, expect to loose a lot more on the counter turn.
I also don't run Sylys with her, but that's because I have enough arc nodes so that she can afford to stay back. If your opponent is smart and wishes to use his battle engines/colossals he'll target the arc nodes first. Often blinding light is her best tool to keep the mage hunters alive, and keeping them alive the most difficult challenge of any Shadows game. Of course this comes from my mindset that you are doing something terribly wrong if you have Issyria in your pairing and you are not preparing to tackle Axis with her.
Against the trenchers and reflex servitors, your mage hunter assassins are your best buddies. Getting engaged removes the dig in rule, and the assassins run 14" and engage people up to 4" during their activation, so you can run them up, 'uncover' the trenchers/bots and run back before activating the strike forces.
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Post by Ianassa on Nov 20, 2017 21:54:57 GMT
So talking Issy in mage hunter theme specifically here:
Issyria and double strikeforce is quite strong against convergence, cygnar and has decent game against ghost fleet, but less so against other cryx themes. The TEP is an excelent blinding light target, but so are any colossals or other units/models that shoots lots of dakka. I advice having at least 2 arcnodes or at the very least 1+sylys so that you can always BL both of those silly battle engines.
What you don't want to see is anything with armour higher than 16, or anything with too many blasts for her blinding light to handle.
She does counter some of the dreaded lists out there quite nicely and fits in a niche role, but be aware that her bad matchups are many as well and often you force yourself in a list chicken situation at best, and outright having to pick one list at the worst giving your opponent the edge in the list choosing phase.
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Post by Ianassa on Nov 20, 2017 21:42:06 GMT
I usually use the minifeat and place them in blocks to maximize armour on the turn the start threat the zones. This usually is also the turn before they are expected to take an alpha to the chin. If I'm able I might place 1 or max 2 in front to force my opponent to deal with them to get the vengeance but often they are too slow for this.
My opponents are often well aware of the threat they pose against their heavies and so avoid them, meaning they can sometimes get stuck in melee grinds with infantry. I don't think this is a bad thing unless your list relies solely on them taking out the heavies. With high mat, high p+s, reach and vengeance they are very potent in infantry clearing roles too, and only a couple need to survive to still swing the late game to your favour in the heavy piece trade.
If I run them with Kaelyssa, I often try to not use their minifeat if Kaelyssa feats as well, giving them 2 rounds of great resilience. I also try to capitalize on relentless charge, and place them behind walls and rubles and such if they still can threat far enough from behind them. With blur/quicken and cover/concealment from a wall their defenense becomes high enough that even sniper will have trouble hitting.
All of this depends of course on what your opponent can bring. Be very careful against snipers, sprays and boostable high pow blasts. The minifieat however do give them enough armour to shrug off electro leaps and low power blasts, just remember to time it well. If in doubt, better use it while you still have sentinels to defend with it.
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Post by Ianassa on Nov 12, 2017 11:58:57 GMT
What solo are you referring to here? We have some decent ones but none jump out at me as awesome or even faintly better than the option of giving a unit of choice pathfinder. Nothing that approaches the utility solos that other factions have. Barring few exceptions (such as Rhupert, Journeyman warcaster and Shepherds), Mage Hunter assassins, Elara1, Arcanists, Artificers, Ghost snipers, Houseguard thanes and Lys Healers are better than similarly costed solos in other factions. We also get Eryriss1 with reposition 3" for free, and same with the pain knight. I wouldn't put ghost snipers and Lys healers in the top tier though, they are not always that relevant and don't annoy the opponent as much as say gremlin swarms do.
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Post by Ianassa on Oct 24, 2017 17:42:00 GMT
I think Kaelyssa is incredibly good but I do find that theme-machine is hurting her competitiveness since she wants to build her force around the synnergies between our different forces because not going theme leaves you up to 20 points down to your opponent from turn 1.
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Post by Ianassa on Oct 13, 2017 11:13:27 GMT
As a heads up Tom was right that you didn't want to admonition your seether. If you admonition away, it countercharges you, effectively getting two charge attacks. He would have tricked you too. My phoenix has a 2" reach while his seether only has 1"
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