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Post by necrovoker on Nov 20, 2017 18:59:01 GMT
Hello everyone!
My last game, I lost half of my Sentinels to charging Storm Lances, and it got me thinking. We often discuss what a unit is good at, what it synergizes with, which buffs it wants/needs, but we don't often discuss on how to actually use them on the table from a tactical standpoint. I'd like to rectify that, as we are a faction of finesse and this thread could help out not only me, but others as well. With that out of the way, what are the different formations that you use with your Sentinels?
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Post by Ianassa on Nov 20, 2017 21:42:06 GMT
I usually use the minifeat and place them in blocks to maximize armour on the turn the start threat the zones. This usually is also the turn before they are expected to take an alpha to the chin. If I'm able I might place 1 or max 2 in front to force my opponent to deal with them to get the vengeance but often they are too slow for this.
My opponents are often well aware of the threat they pose against their heavies and so avoid them, meaning they can sometimes get stuck in melee grinds with infantry. I don't think this is a bad thing unless your list relies solely on them taking out the heavies. With high mat, high p+s, reach and vengeance they are very potent in infantry clearing roles too, and only a couple need to survive to still swing the late game to your favour in the heavy piece trade.
If I run them with Kaelyssa, I often try to not use their minifeat if Kaelyssa feats as well, giving them 2 rounds of great resilience. I also try to capitalize on relentless charge, and place them behind walls and rubles and such if they still can threat far enough from behind them. With blur/quicken and cover/concealment from a wall their defenense becomes high enough that even sniper will have trouble hitting.
All of this depends of course on what your opponent can bring. Be very careful against snipers, sprays and boostable high pow blasts. The minifieat however do give them enough armour to shrug off electro leaps and low power blasts, just remember to time it well. If in doubt, better use it while you still have sentinels to defend with it.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Nov 21, 2017 10:42:16 GMT
I find with Kaelyssa ( only 2 games played with her in Legions so far) that if your opponent out threats them and keeps their stuff out of range by backing up when you feat that it can be effective to minifeat and run 3-4 of them to jam your opponent up and trigger vengeance. Most people with pre measuring will only stay out of charge range but not run and engage range. If you can tie up 2-3 stormlances with 3-4 sentinels you've neutered the unit allowing you to trade up. This worked well with Helynna to some extend as well, she also has the push gun which is a great threat extender for them.
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Post by necrovoker on Nov 21, 2017 21:27:05 GMT
Those are very interesting ideas. As you said Ianassa , my Sentinels tend to get stuck fighting infantry, especially in SR 2017, which isn't really a bad thing of course: in Legions they're essentially the best way to deal with Storm Lances and other heavy multiwound infantry. Jamming them with a few running Sentinels is not only a good way of getting Vengeance, but it also takes the charge away from the opponent, which is huge in Warmachine. Thank you for that idea isotope. As for actual formation, how have you guys placed your Sentinels on the battlefield? I've been keeping them in 4 spearheads of 3 warriors, to get the most out of Wall of Steel, but I'm not fully satisfied with that formation.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Nov 22, 2017 14:16:30 GMT
Those are very interesting ideas. As you said Ianassa , my Sentinels tend to get stuck fighting infantry, especially in SR 2017, which isn't really a bad thing of course: in Legions they're essentially the best way to deal with Storm Lances and other heavy multiwound infantry. Jamming them with a few running Sentinels is not only a good way of getting Vengeance, but it also takes the charge away from the opponent, which is huge in Warmachine. Thank you for that idea isotope. As for actual formation, how have you guys placed your Sentinels on the battlefield? I've been keeping them in 4 spearheads of 3 warriors, to get the most out of Wall of Steel, but I'm not fully satisfied with that formation. If im going to be eating a charge i try to onky put a few in charge range but place the others close enough to vengeance move and hit what charged in. If im against guns i try to only put a few in LOS and the vengeance out from behind a house or forest etc with the rest. Ive started to b2b them less often when i realize even with the +2 my opponent will need a 3 or 4 to kill with a jack theyll be sending inyo themx its better to lose less and vengeance into thw jack. Overall their formation varies depending on thw enemy. I do have lanyssa with them as well, bur mostly try to use it with my jacks for free charges.
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Post by necrovoker on Nov 23, 2017 4:28:16 GMT
Thanks for the input isotope ! I need to get used to the idea of essentially sacrificing a few warriors to save the rest of the unit. I get attached to my chunks of plastic.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Nov 23, 2017 21:30:20 GMT
Losing half the unit to storm lances is to be expected, and is perfectly fine - between vengeance and next turn's charges, you should be able to clean up the 'lances without too much difficulty.
I find that I only run Sentinels in pairs - you really need the critical mass of armor and attacks to avoid getting one unit focused down.
I typically run them in a few ways:
1. If I'm up against lower POW shooting, and I can get far enough up the board, I'll pop the minifeat on the approach in order to keep as many sentinels as possible alive. Ideally they're threatening the zones next turn, so the opponent doesn't have the option of ignoring them.
2. More often, I run sentinels in two waves, about 4" apart (5" if Cygnar). the first wave is there to be killed, triggering vengeance for the other 2/3 of the unit and giving a very respectable 15" threat (never run sentinels without a caster that can extend their threat). If the opponent ignores the front row, you can use them as your first wave, then follow up with the rest of the unit later, if they do, your backline vengeances up and retaliates. Lose-lose for the opponent. Typically in this case, I'll mini-feat the turn after I engage - ARM 20 won't stop most charges, but once you're stuck in, a lot of infantry attacks will bounce.
3. Against Coven specifically, I mix the units into one big blob, and run them in two waves (as above). Curse of shadows can only affect one unit at a time, so mixing two units stops bane riders from being able to reach out and touch your backline. Follow up with marshalled 'jacks (which also have vengeance) and you can stall their charge and counterpunch pretty effectively. It's still a dicey matchup, though.
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Post by necrovoker on Nov 23, 2017 22:18:35 GMT
I find that I only run Sentinels in pairs - you really need the critical mass of armor and attacks to avoid getting one unit focused down. I typically run them in a few ways: 1. If I'm up against lower POW shooting, and I can get far enough up the board, I'll pop the minifeat on the approach in order to keep as many sentinels as possible alive. Ideally they're threatening the zones next turn, so the opponent doesn't have the option of ignoring them. 2. More often, I run sentinels in two waves, about 4" apart (5" if Cygnar). the first wave is there to be killed, triggering vengeance for the other 2/3 of the unit and giving a very respectable 15" threat (never run sentinels without a caster that can extend their threat). If the opponent ignores the front row, you can use them as your first wave, then follow up with the rest of the unit later, if they do, your backline vengeances up and retaliates. Lose-lose for the opponent. Typically in this case, I'll mini-feat the turn after I engage - ARM 20 won't stop most charges, but once you're stuck in, a lot of infantry attacks will bounce. As you stated, I'm starting to feel double Sentinels is the way to go, unless they're not at the center of your strategy. For example with Kae, I'm planning on using them as a pressure tool, along with Invictors, but with Helly and Elara2 I think it's either double sents or no sents at all. I do like the idea of running two small waves, which resonates with what others have been proposing on this thread. I have a game this Saturday and I'll definitely try this. Hopefully this time I'll be able to withstand the charge of the Taser Donkeys.
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Post by etheric42 on Nov 24, 2017 2:34:27 GMT
My tentative Legions of Dawn lists have two minimum sentinals without CAs behind max invictors. The theory is the invictors soften targets and take the initial charge while the sentinals can tactician up to free them (or charge hard targets if the lines get that close).
It's untested as I've been mostly playing Kaelyssa Defenders, but that's my theory.
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