walden
Junior Strategist
Posts: 136
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Bane CID
May 3, 2017 15:10:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by walden on May 3, 2017 15:10:05 GMT
I tested out the new Mechanithralls in a couple of games this weekend. I used: Deneghra1 (Infernal Machines theme) -Deathripper -Deathripper -Leviathan -Seether Aiakos1 -Leviathan 10 Mechanithralls + 3 Brutes (ambush) 10 Mechanithralls + 3 Brutes 10 Mechanithralls + 3 Brutes Necrosurgeon Necrosurgeon Both opponents conceded around turn 3 or 4 after the same pattern: I advanced, they shot most of a Mechanithrall unit off the table, I ambushed a unit and then hit them with Denny's feat and the ambushing thralls + Leviathan shots and ran to engage or to the edge of their debuffed threat ranges. Brute thralls tended to dissolve almost as quickly as Mechanithralls, but the sheer numbers (and the unexpectedly useful recursion from the Necrosurgeons, who I may have been underrating) were overwhelming. Both players complained that a) Deneghra1's feat is deeply unpleasant and oppressive, which is absolutely true, and b) they simply didn't have the volume of attacks to remove that many thralls, certainly not enough to counterpunch while debuffed. To be fair, one opponent was a Khador player who's still fairly new and probably didn't leverage Conquest's AOEs properly or protect his Manowars from the ambushing unit, and the other opponent was a Legion player who was trying a Ravens list that wasn't super optimal. I also found that not having room for a Skarlock or the WSC was very annoying, and I'd consider dropping a couple of Brutes or even a Necrosurgeon to get the Skarlock. Having a Ghost Walk dispenser with a separate activation is just too important, especially for freeing up arc nodes for assassination runs. I feel like a list with more sprays, more electroleaps, or just more plain old POW 10 shooting would tear this list apart pretty easily, and I think the Necrosurgeon (and the Sepulcher, even more so) still needs a buff to make recursion more powerful, like letting stitch thralls contribute to recursion or something. But the sheer volume is definitely effective. (I also really sympathize with the view that they should nerf Deneghra1 hard and rebuild the entire faction from the ground up without the limitations imposed by having to balance around her power...) I've been playing against a legion player who has been treating out the new throne. He typically removes a unit and a half a turn with that. I don't think the amount of thralls we see will be a problem. We have been seeing mostly anti jack tech till now. And with these changes we can now see all tbh he factions anti infantry tech shine.
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Post by wseraphim on May 3, 2017 15:22:22 GMT
I'm interested to see what drops this week. All of the battle reports so far seem to come to similar conclusions. These being Bane Warriors are good but UA is nearly there, either move tough to the standard or change the Officer to Tactics Tough and Granted rise. Bane Knights are tough with wall of steel but need something else, perhaps set defense. Also points slightly high. BLT OK at 6 pts. Maybe veteran leader instead of curse. Bane Riders better with vengeance and +1 MAT but still feel a little weak for their points. Would be better with 2" melee range. Theme force seems to be working well, may need to include 1 or 2 more support pieces. Get ready for week 2 Just bring back Curse movement buff.
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Post by novaspike on May 3, 2017 23:04:23 GMT
New bane tweaks are up!
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Bane CID
May 4, 2017 0:26:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by schostoppa1 on May 4, 2017 0:26:35 GMT
Cryx
Desecrator – We felt this warjacks ranged output could use an increase in effectiveness.
Increase the RNG of the Plague Bearer to 12 and its POW to 14.
Bane Warrior Command Attachment – Moving Granted: Tough to the Standard Bearer makes the ability harder to remove from play. Removing the need to box enemy models as a requirement of Void Bringer makes it more reliable in unfavorable match ups.
Granted: Tough moved to the Standard Bearer. Void Bringer changed to returning d3+1 models.
Bane Knights – Feedback showed that Bane Knights were under performing, please continue to test with this new point value and provide feedback.
Change point cost to 10/16.
Bane Riders – Increasing the threat range of Bane Riders has been a very common theme in feedback. It also has a nice synergy with Vengeance.
Increase the RNG of the Bane Blade to 2.
Mechanithrall – With the increase to DEF, Mechanithrall to cheap at 5/8.
Increase point cost to 6/9.
Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls – We want the Necrosurgeon to remain pertinent. Veteran Leader makes the Mechanithralls (and Brute Thralls) more effective on the battlefield while they are in close proximity to the Necrosurgeon.
Gains Veteran Leader [Mechanithralls]
Bane Lord Tartarus – As a passive ability Veteran Leader is easier to use with regards to order of operations, and is a nice bump for Agathia
Change Curse to Veteran Leader [Bane]. Increase MAT to 8.
Wraith Engine – This removes the counter intuitive interaction between Soul Bondage and Cleave.
Replace the text of Soul Bondage with the following: Once per round when a living enemy warrior model is destroyed while within 2˝ of this model, you can replace the destroyed model with a Machine Wraith solo. The destroyed model is removed from play and does not provide a soul token.
Dark Host Theme Force – Darragh Wrathe brings magic attacks and an assortment of capabilities that support this theme force. Allowing the Wraith Engine to count toward the points for free models is a solid quality of life change for a model we want to see in this theme.
Darragh Wrathe can be included in the Dark Host theme force. Replace the first special rule with the following: For every full 20 points of units and battle engines in this army, you can add one command attachment or medium or smaller based solo to the army free of cost. Free models do not count toward the total point value of units in the army when calculating this bonus.
Infernal Machines Theme Force – We wanted to allow the Wraith Engine to be Infernal Machine theme force.
The Wraith Engine Battle Engine can be included in the Infernal Machine theme force.
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Post by Cryptix on May 4, 2017 0:37:36 GMT
I foresee lots of min/max units of Mcthralls to get the most out of that veteran leader - P+S 19 that can actually hit the broadside of a light here I come!
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Bane CID
May 4, 2017 1:45:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by tarviche on May 4, 2017 1:45:08 GMT
Any caster with a way to deliver Mechanithralls is more appealing now, for sure, since they can kind of MAT fix themselves. I might try a bunch with the Coven, since accuracy is one of the things they can't really provide (aside from relying on Blind crits and ghost walking into back arc).
With the buffed and quite potent guns on the Desecrator, Agathia actually might have a reason to show up? A free focus on two or three of those, as long as they stay close, basically means they run rhemselves, and she doesn't need to run Banes to do it.
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Bane CID
May 4, 2017 2:12:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by 3xhume on May 4, 2017 2:12:04 GMT
Any caster with a way to deliver Mechanithralls is more appealing now, for sure, since they can kind of MAT fix themselves. I might try a bunch with the Coven, since accuracy is one of the things they can't really provide (aside from relying on Blind crits and ghost walking into back arc). With the buffed and quite potent guns on the Desecrator, Agathia actually might have a reason to show up? A free focus on two or three of those, as long as they stay close, basically means they run rhemselves, and she doesn't need to run Banes to do it. Agathia in infernal machines with 2-3 desecrator might actactually be good now. She helps mcthralls on delivery with stealth abd ghostly. Quite excited with all the changes so far.
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Post by Morganstern on May 4, 2017 12:17:47 GMT
Cryx Desecrator – We felt this warjacks ranged output could use an increase in effectiveness. Increase the RNG of the Plague Bearer to 12 and its POW to 14. Bane Warrior Command Attachment – Moving Granted: Tough to the Standard Bearer makes the ability harder to remove from play. Removing the need to box enemy models as a requirement of Void Bringer makes it more reliable in unfavorable match ups. Granted: Tough moved to the Standard Bearer. Void Bringer changed to returning d3+1 models. Bane Knights – Feedback showed that Bane Knights were under performing, please continue to test with this new point value and provide feedback. Change point cost to 10/16. Bane Riders – Increasing the threat range of Bane Riders has been a very common theme in feedback. It also has a nice synergy with Vengeance. Increase the RNG of the Bane Blade to 2. Mechanithrall – With the increase to DEF, Mechanithrall to cheap at 5/8. Increase point cost to 6/9. Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls – We want the Necrosurgeon to remain pertinent. Veteran Leader makes the Mechanithralls (and Brute Thralls) more effective on the battlefield while they are in close proximity to the Necrosurgeon. Gains Veteran Leader [Mechanithralls] Bane Lord Tartarus – As a passive ability Veteran Leader is easier to use with regards to order of operations, and is a nice bump for Agathia Change Curse to Veteran Leader [Bane]. Increase MAT to 8. Wraith Engine – This removes the counter intuitive interaction between Soul Bondage and Cleave. Replace the text of Soul Bondage with the following: Once per round when a living enemy warrior model is destroyed while within 2˝ of this model, you can replace the destroyed model with a Machine Wraith solo. The destroyed model is removed from play and does not provide a soul token. Dark Host Theme Force – Darragh Wrathe brings magic attacks and an assortment of capabilities that support this theme force. Allowing the Wraith Engine to count toward the points for free models is a solid quality of life change for a model we want to see in this theme. Darragh Wrathe can be included in the Dark Host theme force. Replace the first special rule with the following: For every full 20 points of units and battle engines in this army, you can add one command attachment or medium or smaller based solo to the army free of cost. Free models do not count toward the total point value of units in the army when calculating this bonus. Infernal Machines Theme Force – We wanted to allow the Wraith Engine to be Infernal Machine theme force. The Wraith Engine Battle Engine can be included in the Infernal Machine theme force. Called it. I'm overall happy with the changes for week 2. I'm not sure about the price of Mechanithralls. I thought they were worth it at 5/8, 6/9 doesn't really do anything for min units. I do like how receptive PP have been to the feedback they have received.
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Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
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Post by Kavrae on May 4, 2017 13:11:12 GMT
I'm looking at running the following list based on the latest changes. Double Wraithe Engine under Skarre isn't quite as good when I can't spam even more incorporeal models, but the base idea is still there. Double battle engine plus colossal is also a lot of boxes to break through, with any one of them surviving being a threat to their warcaster. 9 points went towards Darragh Wrathe instead of more thralls for the 3rd free model. Mostly because I want to see how well he does with the new Bane Rider changes, but ++1 movement to the Wraith Engines and slow banes is a huge bonus. For the most part, the idea is that any part of the army that reaches the opponent will be able to completely dismantle anything it touches under feat turn, while also being fairly durable. Aside - it is 1 point short. Probably just fill it with a Soul Trapper even though I'm not using souls much. Any suggestions?
Skarre1 --Skarlock Thrall --Kraken Wraith Engine Wraith Engine Scrap Thralls Darragh Wrathe Bane Lord Tartarus (free) Bane Warriors - Min Min Unit --Bane Warrior UA (free) Bane Riders Min Unit
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Post by Cryptix on May 4, 2017 13:17:53 GMT
I was thinking along the lines of:
Terminus 2 x Desecrators Min Warriors + UA Max Warriors + UA Darraghe 2 x Wraith Engines
To make a solid brick around Terminus. The one problem is with slams that mess up my positioning.
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Post by wseraphim on May 4, 2017 13:54:38 GMT
Obvious list for me: Goreshade2 --Descecrator(14) --Descecrator(14) --Deathripper or two(6)
-Bane Warriors[10] (15) --Bane Warrior UA (free) -Bane Kinghts[6] (10) -Bane Riders[5] (20) -Bane Lord Tartarus (free) -Wraith Engine(15) -Darragh Wrathe(free?/9) -Some free solo
Occultation goes to engine, Apparation goes to riders and then to warriors. Darragh buffs for move Knights go make some dirt on flank Desecrators shoot things with double boost Deathripper goes for Arm debuff or abyssal gate.
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Post by Cryptix on May 4, 2017 14:38:29 GMT
Oh, Occultation o the Engine is disgusting. Want to shoot it with magical weapons? Too bad, stealth. Wanna melee? Only your warcaster ignores incorporeal. Dark Host might actually be a good Khador drop, since they are crippled by Stealth and lack of Magic Weapons.
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delaris
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 1
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Post by delaris on May 4, 2017 14:49:45 GMT
Huge base models can't have stealth, if i remember right... it can have it, but it don't work.
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Post by Cryptix on May 4, 2017 14:59:31 GMT
Huge base models can't have stealth, if i remember right... it can have it, but it don't work. That's colossals I believe. Battlee Engines are just immune to stationary, knockdown, pushes, slams, and throws.
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Post by wseraphim on May 4, 2017 15:28:41 GMT
Oh, Occultation o the Engine is disgusting. Want to shoot it with magical weapons? Too bad, stealth. Wanna melee? Only your warcaster ignores incorporeal. Dark Host might actually be a good Khador drop, since they are crippled by Stealth and lack of Magic Weapons. Khador has access to 7-10 boosted large blasts, so still clearing small-based banes on average(no immune to blast damage, remember). Riders are mush tougher and it really matters whether Khador player manages to wipe out whole unit in a single turn or not.
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