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Post by MiNDmaZing on May 5, 2017 17:33:22 GMT
Cryx Army - 65 / 75 points
[Theme] Dark Host
(Deneghra 2) Wraith Witch Deneghra [+28]
Bane Lord Tartarus (CID) [0(6)]
Bane Warriors (CID) (max) [15]
- Bane Warrior Officer & Standard (CID) [0(5)]
Bane Warriors (CID) (max) [15]
- Bane Warrior Officer & Standard (CID) [0(5)]
Bane Warriors (CID) (max) [15]
- Bane Warrior Officer & Standard (CID) [5]
Wraith Engine [15]
So 3 times u get free UAs and you can return 12 banes with luck, which caster would you take?
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Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182 
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Post by Kavrae on May 5, 2017 17:54:25 GMT
Well, overall the theme hits like a boss from Dark Souls while having a decent ability to keep itself alive. The trouble comes in two forms. Accuracy and speed. So I would want a caster that fixes one or both issues. Or (like Terminus) takes a completely different approach The ones that I consider viable at the moment:
Aiakos 2 - Unusual option. Carnage helps with accuracy and grants assault to a small horde of Desecrators or Reapers on feat turn. Could be a fun b-tier option.
Deneghra1 - Always a solid caster. Trouble is, she also wants to be running a Ghost Fleet army. Can't do both.
Deneghra2 - Has some fun tricks that the theme could use. Feat on a couple Desecrators could be a solid start with Riders and Warriors following up.
Deneghra3 - Spamming Mortality and Scourge can make the Bane horde downright terrifying. Not much to protect her though, so looks risky
Goreshade2 - Mirage is the main thing here, increasing the threat range of one unit. Tactician is also nice for using Bane Knights with Warriors or Riders behind them. Part that makes me sad is a lack of cheap infantry for his feat.
Terminus - Surrounded by a horde of Banes, this guy just looks scary. Not sure how practical it is though. New Mechanithralls might be better for him.
Scaverous - He can MAT fix and move key Banes forward 2". A full unit on feat turn (depending on soul income). Small bonus - works very well with Darragh Wrathe who's now in theme
Skarre1 - Dark Guidance and her feat make her a great warcaster for this theme, right below Deneghra.
Sturgis2 - Could be a fun one with his AOE drag, but I'm not sure that he'll be doing much outside of feat turn.
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Post by Morganstern on May 5, 2017 18:45:28 GMT
Well, overall the theme hits like a boss from Dark Souls while having a decent ability to keep itself alive. The trouble comes in two forms. Accuracy and speed. So I would want a caster that fixes one or both issues. Or (like Terminus) takes a completely different approach The ones that I consider viable at the moment: Aiakos 2 - Unusual option. Carnage helps with accuracy and grants assault to a small horde of Desecrators or Reapers on feat turn. Could be a fun b-tier option. Deneghra1 - Always a solid caster. Trouble is, she also wants to be running a Ghost Fleet army. Can't do both. Deneghra2 - Has some fun tricks that the theme could use. Feat on a couple Desecrators could be a solid start with Riders and Warriors following up. Deneghra3 - Spamming Mortality and Scourge can make the Bane horde downright terrifying. Not much to protect her though, so looks risky Goreshade2 - Mirage is the main thing here, increasing the threat range of one unit. Tactician is also nice for using Bane Knights with Warriors or Riders behind them. Part that makes me sad is a lack of cheap infantry for his feat. Terminus - Surrounded by a horde of Banes, this guy just looks scary. Not sure how practical it is though. New Mechanithralls might be better for him. Scaverous - He can MAT fix and move key Banes forward 2". A full unit on feat turn (depending on soul income). Small bonus - works very well with Darragh Wrathe who's now in theme Skarre1 - Dark Guidance and her feat make her a great warcaster for this theme, right below Deneghra. Sturgis2 - Could be a fun one with his AOE drag, but I'm not sure that he'll be doing much outside of feat turn. Don't forget that the theme allows scrap thralls for Shade's feat. Also I'm going to try Gaspy 3 in theme. Cloak of ash to give Banes stealth, Bane riders can batter screening infantry while Vociferon sucks up the souls. Also calamity to provide a decent MAT fix and armour swing. I'm thinking of taking the following list: Asphyxious the Hellbringer & Vociferon (-24) Desecration (14) Inflictor (13) Seether (13) Cankerworm (9) BLT (0) Necrotech (0) Soul trappers (1) Daragh Wrath (9) Bane Warriors (15) + UA (5) Bane Riders (20) |
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Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
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Post by Kavrae on May 5, 2017 19:07:27 GMT
Oh, good point on the Scrap Thralls and Cloak of Ash. I was thinking that Goreshade's feat required trooper models, which would have ruled out the Scrap Thralls.
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on May 6, 2017 17:53:11 GMT
Sturgis2 - Could be a fun one with his AOE drag, but I'm not sure that he'll be doing much outside of feat turn. Sturgis really likes the Bane theme. Arm 19 against shooting and clouds to hide behind plus his anti infantry tool kit make him a pretty nice option. He can also put occultation on the Wraith Engine which makes it even more survivable. Denny2 also really likes the theme because she's so good at clearing infantry. Also don't forget Morty2. One of the biggest weaknesses of the theme is lack of magic weapons, blessed banes with magic weapons with CoS is 4d6-1 against an arcane shielded stormwall. |
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Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
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Post by Kavrae on May 6, 2017 20:20:51 GMT
Sturgis2 - Could be a fun one with his AOE drag, but I'm not sure that he'll be doing much outside of feat turn. Sturgis really likes the Bane theme. Arm 19 against shooting and clouds to hide behind plus his anti infantry tool kit make him a pretty nice option. He can also put occultation on the Wraith Engine which makes it even more survivable. Denny2 also really likes the theme because she's so good at clearing infantry. Also don't forget Morty2. One of the biggest weaknesses of the theme is lack of magic weapons, blessed banes with magic weapons with CoS is 4d6-1 against an arcane shielded stormwall. So overall, with a few exceptions, the Bane Theme can work with whatever the user's favorite caster is. They may not all be top tier, but they work. |
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Post by Cryptix on May 6, 2017 20:42:58 GMT
What spells go where when you're using Scaverous Kav?
You planning a tactica on the Dark Hot?
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Post by Morganstern on May 6, 2017 21:04:16 GMT
Sturgis2 - Could be a fun one with his AOE drag, but I'm not sure that he'll be doing much outside of feat turn. Sturgis really likes the Bane theme. Arm 19 against shooting and clouds to hide behind plus his anti infantry tool kit make him a pretty nice option. He can also put occultation on the Wraith Engine which makes it even more survivable. Denny2 also really likes the theme because she's so good at clearing infantry. Also don't forget Morty2. One of the biggest weaknesses of the theme is lack of magic weapons, blessed banes with magic weapons with CoS is 4d6-1 against an arcane shielded stormwall. How would you run Denny2? |
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on May 6, 2017 22:13:16 GMT
How would you run Denny2? I'd run her with something like: conflictchamber.com/#b41b_-0B0B3c3c1fi22E2kf0i5i5hZh_bBCryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Dark Host !!! Your army contains CID entries. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Deneghra 2) Wraith Witch Deneghra [+28] - Desecrator [14] - Desecrator [14] - Nightwretch [7] Bane Lord Tartarus (CID) [0(6)] Darragh Wrathe [9] Machine Wraith [2] Soul Trapper [1] Bane Knights (CID) (max) [16] Bane Knights (CID) (max) [16] Bane Warriors (CID) (min) [9] - Bane Warrior Officer & Standard (CID) [0(5)] Wraith Engine [15] The main observations being that Denny2 herself goes up to arm 17 against shooting and has clouds to hide in and desecrators to hide behind. The Desecrators provide crowd control along with Denny2 herself and Darragh gives the Knights arm 20 against living warrior models and warbeasts. Another thing about the list is that you have 3 sources of dark shroud so Knights can hit at p+s 16 against heavies at mat 7 with Tartarus. Finally, the Desecrators under Denny2's, marked for death and tartarus can set up pretty much anything to do an assassination run. Bane Knights and the WE become effective mat 12 and Denny2 herself can teleport casters by charging while incorporeal, feating and teleporting the enemy caster to where your stuff can get your hands on it. There's also a very cute ranged assassination you can play with two Leviathians, a nightwretch and her feat. |
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on May 6, 2017 22:16:55 GMT
Sturgis really likes the Bane theme. Arm 19 against shooting and clouds to hide behind plus his anti infantry tool kit make him a pretty nice option. He can also put occultation on the Wraith Engine which makes it even more survivable. Denny2 also really likes the theme because she's so good at clearing infantry. Also don't forget Morty2. One of the biggest weaknesses of the theme is lack of magic weapons, blessed banes with magic weapons with CoS is 4d6-1 against an arcane shielded stormwall. So overall, with a few exceptions, the Bane Theme can work with whatever the user's favorite caster is. They may not all be top tier, but they work. It's kind of weird because it takes our casters with delivery and getting shot to death problems and lets them go to town. Denny1 is an exception because she doesn't benefit from the WE. Terminus especially benefits from being to pawn shots off to arm 20 tough bane knights. Malediction stacks with Dark Shroud as well so you potentially have mat 9 p+s 18 bane knights following up as well with help from Tartarus (who's also tough). |
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Post by Gamingdevil on May 8, 2017 7:40:26 GMT
It's kind of weird because it takes our casters with delivery and getting shot to death problems and lets them go to town. Denny1 is an exception because she doesn't benefit from the WE. Terminus especially benefits from being to pawn shots off to arm 20 tough bane knights. Malediction stacks with Dark Shroud as well so you potentially have mat 9 p+s 18 bane knights following up as well with help from Tartarus (who's also tough). I'm not entirely sure why you would pawn off shots from your ARM 20 caster to ARM 20 Bane Knights (except for Eiryss or something of course). If they won't kill the Bane Knights, they wouldn't have hurt you and if they would've hurt you, you didn't need that ARM 20 on the Bane Knights in the first place. I actually think Terminus got even better in Ghost Fleet with the Unhallowed Change, or even in Infernal Machines. Playing him with Banes has always been about the output, the Sacrificial Pawns are just icing. |
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on May 8, 2017 14:42:33 GMT
It's kind of weird because it takes our casters with delivery and getting shot to death problems and lets them go to town. Denny1 is an exception because she doesn't benefit from the WE. Terminus especially benefits from being to pawn shots off to arm 20 tough bane knights. Malediction stacks with Dark Shroud as well so you potentially have mat 9 p+s 18 bane knights following up as well with help from Tartarus (who's also tough). I'm not entirely sure why you would pawn off shots from your ARM 20 caster to ARM 20 Bane Knights (except for Eiryss or something of course). If they won't kill the Bane Knights, they wouldn't have hurt you and if they would've hurt you, you didn't need that ARM 20 on the Bane Knights in the first place. I actually think Terminus got even better in Ghost Fleet with the Unhallowed Change, or even in Infernal Machines. Playing him with Banes has always been about the output, the Sacrificial Pawns are just icing. A tough bane knight can eat an unboosted Hunter shot 53% of the time and an unboosted Defender shot 47% of the time. The key is that you can pawn off things that *would* have damaged terminus and often your Bane Knight is no worse for wear other than knockdown. |
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Post by Gamingdevil on May 8, 2017 15:02:01 GMT
I'm not entirely sure why you would pawn off shots from your ARM 20 caster to ARM 20 Bane Knights (except for Eiryss or something of course). If they won't kill the Bane Knights, they wouldn't have hurt you and if they would've hurt you, you didn't need that ARM 20 on the Bane Knights in the first place. I actually think Terminus got even better in Ghost Fleet with the Unhallowed Change, or even in Infernal Machines. Playing him with Banes has always been about the output, the Sacrificial Pawns are just icing. A tough bane knight can eat an unboosted Hunter shot 53% of the time and an unboosted Defender shot 47% of the time. The key is that you can pawn off things that *would* have damaged terminus and often your Bane Knight is no worse for wear other than knockdown. I agree. My point was that, since your caster is ARM 20 anyway, the things that would damage your caster might benefit more from having more redundancy in sac pawns, like Thralls or Revenants, than having high quality sac pawns like Banes, as both are likely to die. Not saying that a Bane army is bad with him at all, just not as sac pawns. |
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on May 8, 2017 15:38:20 GMT
A tough bane knight can eat an unboosted Hunter shot 53% of the time and an unboosted Defender shot 47% of the time. The key is that you can pawn off things that *would* have damaged terminus and often your Bane Knight is no worse for wear other than knockdown. I agree. My point was that, since your caster is ARM 20 anyway, the things that would damage your caster might benefit more from having more redundancy in sac pawns, like Thralls or Revenants, than having high quality sac pawns like Banes, as both are likely to die. Not saying that a Bane army is bad with him at all, just not as sac pawns. There's a little more to it than that. A Bane Knight with wall of steel can eat all the anti infantry stuff that gets thrown at it, an electroleap and a pow 12 spray, so the usual strategy of "blow away the pawns then blow away terminus" gets a lot harder. 3 min bane knights + darragh + a wraith engine is a very hard brick to deal with. |
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Post by Cryptix on May 10, 2017 22:06:28 GMT
So, any changes?
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